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Post by Montezuma on Aug 28, 2022 3:43:37 GMT -5
"Brown Bears are better and more determined fighters than tigers"!Many tigerfans think that tigers are better head-on fair fighter than bears which is very far far far away from reality; since in reality, bears are better, more vicious, more determined, more tenacious and more dedicated fair head-on fighters than not only than tigers but of all big cats. The proof is here:-"The American grizzly is a more terrible fighter than either lion or tiger, being far stronger and harder to kill.”
trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/217836141?searchTerm=summed%20up%20as%20fighters%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&searchLimits=
HERE ARE SOME OPINIONS FROM AN ANIMAL DEALER:
"Supposing all the animals in the "zoo" at Regent's Park were to begin a fight to the death, who would be the ultimate victor? A well known animal dealer votes for the elephant. His trunk is his weapon, and he is the hardest hitter with it of all the animals"
"In a lion and tiger fight, one would hardly back Leo, for he is generally several stones lighter than the tiger"
"The grizzly bear is a formidable foe. He can punch like no animal save the elephant, one blow of his stupendous paw will break a horse's back, and when he clinches to avoid punishment, his hug will crush anything living. Besides this, nothing can break his pluck. He will fight as long as he can see or stand, and he is a glutton for punishment. None of the cat tribe could stand a tenth of the pounding which the grizzly takes without turning a hair. As an offset to the useful qualities i have enumerated, the bear is slow on his feet, and his eye is not good".
trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/33198135?searchTerm=Bears%20are%20better%20fighters%20than%20lions
This is from the same book as reply #22, The minds and manners of wild animals, by William Temple Hornaday, American zoologist and conservationist.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Temple_Hornaday
And here you can really see the great difference in behavior of bears and felines:
"At the New York zoological park, a male jaguar killed a female jaguar, "he had determined to murder her, but had cunningly concealed his purpose until his victim was fully in his power".
"Bears usually fight "on the square" openly and above-board, rarely committing foul murder. If one bear hates another, he attacks at the very first opportunity. He does not cunningly wait to catch the offender at a disadvantage and beyond the possibility of rescue. Sometimes a captive bear kills a cage-mate or mauls a keeper, but not by the sneaking methods of the human assasin who shoots in the dark and runs away."
books.google.com.pk/books?
id=1o85AAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA290&dq=bear+kills+jaguar&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=bear%20kills%20jaguar&f=false
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Post by Montezuma on Aug 28, 2022 3:52:17 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Aug 28, 2022 4:00:39 GMT -5
VALENTIN FILATOV-SOVIET BEAR TRAINER
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentin_Filatov_(bear_trainer)
"Bears are the most dangerous and deadly of all circus animals and the most difficult and time-consuming to train."
"Unlike the lions and tigers who have frequent forthright flashes of temper, bears are given to secret brooding and unexpected attacks."
He notes that a displeased lion or tiger will give a few prefatory snarls, and an angry elephant will sway its trunk before he charges, "but you never know what bears are thinking or when they are planning to tear you to pieces."
"Bears strike without warning, and their strength is so formidable that one strike of a paw can kill a man. And, once enraged, they are almost impossible to stop."
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Post by Montezuma on Aug 28, 2022 4:05:22 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Aug 28, 2022 4:25:01 GMT -5
According to the famous animal trainer, Clyde beatty, bears are more dangerous than lions, tigers, leopards or panthers.
Accodding to the following statement by a russian expert, in bear vs tiger duel, a tiger always wins only by ambush while a bear "surely" conquers a tiger in a fair fight.
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Post by Montezuma on Aug 28, 2022 4:36:14 GMT -5
Another perfect example to see that bears are better fighters than tiger is to consider that how these two animals performed against bovines in face-on pit fights. The Largest brown bear subspecies, Californian Grizzly, was a brave fighter who used to kill more than two fighting bulls at the same time. While on the other hand, the largest tiger subspecies, Bengal tiger could not even kill even a single bull in a fight.
beargorillarealm.proboards.com/thread/142/grizzly-spanish-fighting-bull-accounts
beargorillarealm.proboards.com/thread/172/bovids-defeat-tigers-accounts
So its easy to analyze that who is the better fighter. Obviously and logical: The bear.
Thats is why many experts like Valmik Thapar, regard tigers as "cowardly" animal.
Source:-
Tapatalk: Tiger the coward
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Post by Montezuma on Aug 28, 2022 4:43:35 GMT -5
Morphological studies reveal that bears do not only have a warrior's temper, but also have such physical structure that enchance better fighting. They are more robust, better grappler and more flexibly forelimbed animals than tigers.
beargorillarealm.proboards.com/thread/10/morphological-studies-comparing-animals
Brown bears also mostly surpass tigers in wirth, length and heftiness.
beargorillarealm.proboards.com/thread/162/strength-girth-comparison-bears-cats
Brown bear claws are more destructive than those of tigers.
beargorillarealm.proboards.com/thread/154/bear-claws-joke
Either at same weights, brown bears are stronger than tigers pound-for-pound.
beargorillarealm.proboards.com/thread/133/bear-strength
And by above information from science, here are brown bear and tiger advantages:-
Brown Bear advantages:-
1. Larger and heavier
2. Stronger and more flexible forelimbs
3. Better Grappling ability
4. More robust and stronger muscles and body
5. A plantigrade structure (Better for fighting)
6. More stamina and endurance
7. More proctective skin and fur
8. Better claws and stronger paw swipes
9. A warrior's temper
Tiger advantages:-
1. More agile and fast
2. Better bite
So as it is obviously seen, that brown bears have more advantages than tigers in a fight. And stating that bears are better fighters than tigers is a sensible thing rather than fantansy of tigerfan boys.
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Post by Montezuma on Aug 28, 2022 4:56:09 GMT -5
So from all the above given scientific data, here are our solid, confirmed, authentic and approved points that sharpely cut off tigerfan's fantansy claims.
1#. Brown bears are generally zero percent in tiger's diet. (The Siberian Tiger Project: Diet table)
2#. If preyed, thosebears are always young and subadults, and very rarely female adults. (Ivan Seryodkin, N.A. Baikov)
3#. Tigers generally avoid brown bears and hestiate to attack them. (Alexander Batalov, N.A. Baikov)
4#. Male brown bears are not afraid of tigers. (Grigory Linkov)
5#. Brown bears can displace tigers from their kills including adult males and invariably dominate such disputes. (Miquelle, Tkachenko)
6#. A male brown bear can generally defeat a male male tiger in a fight. (Mikhail Krechmar)
7#. A tiger always chooses a bear about 100 pound smaller than himself. (BART SCHLEYER)
8#. If a tiger attacks by ambush, the tiger wins but if the ambush fails so the bear would surely conquer the tiger. (MIKHAILOVICH SHIROKOGOROV)
9#. Brown bear predation on tigers is very but becomes intense in harsh winters. (Gorokhov)
10#. No case of adult male brown bear killed by tiger is known to biologists. (Miquelle, Amurtiger centre)
11#. Female brown bear is more stronger than tigeress. (Alex Kulikov)
12#. Apart from human, brown bears have no natural enemies. (N.A. Baikov)
13#. Brown bears reap great benefit from tiger's winter kills. (Dale Miquelle)
14#. Brown bears are stronger and more enduring than the tigers. (Sysoev)
15#. Brown bears are the real master of the taiga as they are not afraid if tigers and can beat them.(Grigory linkov, Sysoev)
16#. Brown bear kleptoparasitism can effect tiger's prey selection meaning brown bears can effect tiger's survival rate. (Krofel, John Goldrich)
17# Brown bears are more dangerous and better fighters than tigers. (Clyde beatty).
I hope, everybody enjoyed this thread!!! Period!
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Post by Montezuma on Dec 10, 2022 12:53:47 GMT -5
From Yuliya Femonko, a russian biologist working in russiaWWF for more than 15+ years.
wwf.ru/en/about/people/yuliya-ruslanovna-fomenko/?send=ok
Hello,
"In the wild tigers weighting 210 kg practically do not exist (if they are not fed in McDonalds!) As a rule, a a big male tiger that live in the Russian Far East weights about 180 kilograms. There are brown bears of 250 kilograms and even more no battles between big tigers and big brown bears were registered so far. A bear is usual Amur tiger prey and sometimes bears compose up to 20% in the tiger ration. As a rule, these are pretty young bears up to 2-3 years old weighting up to 100 kilograms.
"I think that the reals conflicts between big tigers and big bear happen just to demonstrate their status and not their force as the animals very clearly understand the threat of getting injured even if the wound could be not too serious. There are no hospitals and vets in the wild."
Therefore, the question who will win 250 or 210 is not correct for the wild environment.
The answers were provided by Pavel Fomenko, tiger expert from WWF.
Thanks a lot for your interest!
Note that in all her study tenure, she knew knew about any case of big battles between bears and tigers. So the Batalov's 2017 report gets easily debuncked here again. And here another tiger fan claim gets debuncked: according to the newest studies even big tigers only weigh 180 kgs and a 210 kg tiger isn't very uncommon. And here again, all thise bears killed by tigers, as a rule, are only 2-3 years old meaning non-mature subadults.
So again, Femonko debuncks some of tigerfan boys claims.
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Post by Montezuma on Dec 10, 2022 12:56:52 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Dec 10, 2022 13:05:50 GMT -5
I can't miss this one!
A great proof by Warsaw showing that tigers avoid big brown bears!!!!
From the same book "Big Game Hunting in Manchuria" N.A Baikov.
"Большого бураго медвeдя тигръ не трогаетъ, но гималайскаго преслeдуетъ усердно"
So Baikow says the same things over and over again "Большого бураго медвeдя тигръ не трогаетъ, но гималайскаго преслeдуетъ усердно"
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Post by Gorilla king on Dec 25, 2022 18:29:25 GMT -5
Email from biologist David meanwell, Director of the Bear conservation society.
uk.linkedin.com/in/david-meanwell-b960355
By providing accessible, accurate and comprehensive sources of information on all things "bear" we work to help those who want to learn more about bears and to use their knowledge to speak out for bears and to help achieve our vision.
Since they have all information regarding bears of the world, i think, their opinion is reliable and here is the email.
"Thanks for contacting us. Tigers are known to catch and kill bears for food. Usually these are young female Himalayan bears. Bears will always fight back and can inflict injuries on tigers, and probably sometimes kill them, so tigers are often very wary of attacking bears."
If you haven't looked at this page it has quite a bit of information on the subject: a-z-animals.com/blog/bear-vs-tiger-who-would-win-in-a-fight/
Kind regards,
David
Bear Conservation
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Post by Montezuma on Feb 15, 2023 6:07:03 GMT -5
More information of bear's dominance over tigers in siberia. Single brown bear dominates three tigers at the same time!From Kuchrenko's book in 2016, an account is told where a fearless large brown bear makes an adult female and two adult male tigers to flee away; which shows the brown bear's dominance over tigers in taiga:“Once in November, when the first snow was already lying, but it was still warm, a large bear, fattened on abundant nuts, peacefully wandered along the cedar forest. And from under the river cliff three tigers fell out at once - a mother and her two almost adult sons. The tigress rushed at the bear with a menacing roar, but the bear did not budge, preparing for an oncoming jump. She hesitated, looked back at her overgrown beauties, and they went to the sides of the bear, copying their mother with a coughing growl. The bear was not afraid here either - he only gathered his pile of muscles into a single huge ball and prepared for battle, although he probably understood that he could not cope with three tigers. The tigers rushed at the daredevil several times, but he did not run. And they retreated, they left”. mur-r.ru/books/item/f00/s00/z0000023/st011.shtmlMore proof of bear's dominance over tigers in kill disputes:"Large bears chase tigers and frequently steal their prey. In such cases fights between beasts commonly occur, resulting in death of a tiger or a bear (Sysoyev, 1966 ;Kucherenko , 1971; Matyushkin, 1974) .”
 books.google.com.pk/books?id=Kwy2AAAAIAAJ&q=Large%20bears%20chase%20tigers%20and%20frequently%20steal%20their%20prey.%20In%20such%20cases%20fights%20between%20beasts%20commonly%20occur%2C%20resulting%20in%20death%20of%20a%20tiger%20or%20a%20bear%20(Sysoyev%2C%201966%20%3B%20Kucherenko%2C%201971%20%3B%20Matyushkin%2C%201974)&dq=Large%20bears%20chase%20tigers%20and%20frequently%20steal%20their%20prey.%20In%20such%20cases%20fights%20between%20beasts%20commonly%20occur%2C%20resulting%20in%20death%20of%20a%20tiger%20or%20a%20bear%20(Sysoyev%2C%201966%20%3B%20Kucherenko%2C%201971%20%3B%20Matyushkin%2C%201974)&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDo6qX74v9AhXhhP0HHTbDDf8Q6AF6BAgFEAMFrom 2016 study, by Ivan Seryodkin:"By using the remains of victims of other predators after their hosts have left them, brown bears act as commensals (Fig. 1). Brown bears often visit tiger victims”.
"Brown bears can be aggressive towards the predators (other bears, tigers) and people approaching their prey or carrion.”
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Post by Montezuma on Feb 15, 2023 6:21:15 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Feb 15, 2023 6:39:11 GMT -5
Here is proof that brown bear activity in Sikhote-Alin reserve isn't effected by tigers.
2. www.researchgate.net/publication/257859027_Daily_activity_patterns_of_brown_bear_Ursus_arctos_of_the_Sikhote-Alin_mountain_range_Primorskiy_Krai_Russia
According to biologist Tkachenko, brown bears show no fear to tiger tracks and feel easy when tracking them.
"But at present, tigers do not live permanently on Khekhtsir. Since 2013, only their annual visits have been noted [ 6 ,7 ], which are mainly confined to the warm season (April-October). In 1992–2007, when a sedentary group of tigers lived on Khekhtsir, adult male brown bears treated their fresh tracks calmly and could move both along them and in the opposite direction. For example, on November 27, 1992, in the upper reaches of the river. Bykov's brown bear, following the trail of the tigress, trampled, and then followed her for about 2 km, periodically dodging to the side. The height of the snow cover along the route of the animals was 9–14 cm."
elementy.ru/nauchno-populyarnaya_biblioteka/434170/Burye_medvedi_Bolshogo_Khekhtsira?from=rxblock
Biologist Dale Miquelle says how in a kill dispute reaction, a brown bear displaced a tiger from its kill; which show the "bears dominance over a tiger".
" “I have a story that supports this conjecture, too. I was once an a kayaking trip in the Siberian tiger reserve along the eastern seaboard of Russia- when I met a field researcher, Dale Miquelle,who to of a story once arriving at a site where a tiger has just made a kill of a large deer. Miquelle knew the tiger was very close; he even assumed the cat was watching him as he stopped to examine the deer. Suddenly a huge brown bear (very closely related to the grizzly) bushes out of the bush, and Miquell, screaming and jumping backward, fell down an embankment That, likelihood , saved him from a severe mauling. The startled bear ran off, and once Miquelle calmed himself, he examined the tracks around the deer and reconstructed what happened. The tiger had killed the deer, but then the bear had arrived and stolen the kill from the tiger. This was the first time that a scientist had ever established the order of dominance between big cats and big bears.”
books.google.com.pk/books?id=ngRHjR6xumgC&pg=PA201&dq=dale+miquelle+tiger+bear&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&redir_esc=y
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Post by Montezuma on Feb 15, 2023 6:57:10 GMT -5
In another email, bear expert David Meanwell favours a bear over a tiger in a fight; adding another expert opinion in bear's favour. He is basically talking in general. That as a rule, tigers always kill bears via ambush where he favours the tiger. But, in fights, tiger simply run away. Which means bears generally defeat tigers in fights.
The email:
And i shouldn't forget to mention here that Brown bear are also known as Master of the taiga, mountains and even water bodies in Amur region. Showing that they arn't subordinates to tigers.
beargorillarealm.proboards.com/thread/53/master-taiga
So as we can see, more and more, newer and newer scientific studies show that bears mostly dominate tigers in far eastern russian and the opposite is simple fraud, bring exposed. More information would be posted. Until then, enjoy the thread!
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Post by Gorilla king on Feb 9, 2024 11:25:16 GMT -5
LARGE MALE TIGER "ODYR" FINDS THE DEN OF A HIBERNATING BEAR, WHEN THE BEAR WOKE UP AND CAME OUT AND SHOWED IT SIZE, THE TIGER FLEED.
 m.vk.com/wall-104014369_2258
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Post by Montezuma on Sept 7, 2024 7:41:19 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Sept 7, 2024 7:44:54 GMT -5
Great thing posted by @grahh in 2010:
(Starts at page 10) Translation:
Relationships between the Amur tiger and brown bears:
"In November 1965, local resident V.E. Derevnin found the remains of a tiger, eaten by a bear, in the floodplain of the D. Taezhnaya River. The river's floodplain was trampled with predator tracks for several kilometers. The tiger circled and made loops, trying to escape persistent pursuit, but was eventually caught and torn apart."
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Post by Montezuma on Sept 7, 2024 7:45:07 GMT -5
According to biologist Mikhail Kretschmar Brown bear is the best fighter among animals, shatun bears are devoid of any fear and there quality of endurance is unmatched by the tiger.
"Shatun is a beast completely devoid of fear. This is abnormal and such an abnormal bear becomes deadly. Shatun does not see any difference between a person and any other prey; every moving creature means only one thing for him - food. Food for him is the only way to survive. In the Baikal region, there are cases where a bear, having run over a deer and fed, went back into hibernation."
"The brown bear is the best soldier among animals."
"The most dangerous animal in Russia is the bear."
"The brown bear has incredible vitality; it is the most “tough to wound”, in hunting parlance, animal among our fauna. Neither deer, nor elk, nor mountain sheep, nor large cats - in particular, the tiger, can compare with it in this quality. There are known cases of absolutely incredible injuries to this animal, after which the bear ran hundreds of meters, breaking everything, killed people, and only after that fell dead."
www-hunting-ru.translate.goog/blogs/view/91515/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es-419&_x_tr_pto=wapp
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