Bears interactions with cougars

[arctozilla]

/\ yes, cougars are cowards.

Ps: cat fanatics always crap out on bears and so can I do the same with cats. Xd

[Gorilla king]

HUNTER WITNESSES FEMALE BEAR KILL A VERY LARGE COUGAR CALLED "OLD SPOT" IN A FIGHT IN REVENGE FOR THE KILLING OF HER 2 CUBS.










books.google.com/books?id=xA7OAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA4-PA28&lpg=RA4-PA28&dq=He+had+made+one+too+do+nothing%C2%A0more+than%C2%A0frighten+both+commany+killings+.+batants+away+.+They+fought+for+several+minutes+

[arctozilla]

/\ OMG! Never saw this account before but is it reliable?

There are also cases of lionesses killing leopards to avenge their cubs and one footage of a bear killing a tiger to avenge her friend at Clyde Beatty's Zoo.

[Gorilla king]

OMG! Never saw this account before but is it reliable?

Well, its from a book about hunting. Its like most old accounts, each one must choose to believe or not believe. A female bear (unknown species in this case) killing a very large cougar is sure as hell more credible than a cougar killing an adult male bear.

[oldcyansilverback]

While I support the bear, I tend to take hunters account with a grain of salt.
Regarding the cougar ‘killing’ the grizzly, what is the size, weight, and subspecies of the bear?

North American cougars are the biggest of their kind.

[arctozilla]

/\ hunter accounts are exaggerated.

They even tell about tigers killing adult elephants, which is ridicolous. Not even a lion pride can.

Also eyewitness testimony can be unreliable and biased.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/eyewitness_testimony

[Gorilla king]

So a female grizzly bear killing a cougar is exaggerated? Is not possible? How come? 

If a hunter or even a biologist states that he witnessed a tiger killing a bull tusker elephant, then you know its total horseshit because that is physically impossible, an elephant takes a shit and the tiger dies, simple as this. Same with full grown rhinos.

So like i said before, each person has to choose to believe or not believe accounts. It really depends on what the account says. But a god damn bear killing a sorry ass cougar? Why not?

[oldcyansilverback]

/\ I guess common sense is needed in some cases . It is not impossible for a female grizzly to kill a cougar. Even most female American black bears are larger and heavier than male cougars.

[Gorilla king]

JULY 21, 2022

BLACK BEAR CHASING A COUGAR IN ENTERPRISE, OREGON:

[Gorilla king]

BLACK BEAR DISPLACES 7 YEAR OLD ADULT FEMALE MOUNTAIN LION FROM KILL:



While these kill sites attracted other species, most of
the kills were protected due to burial or hidden
underneath trees. Roughly 64% of carcasses were found
under a tree or thick brush, while the rest were buried in
the dirt or under grass. The mountain lion made an
attempt to cover all carcasses, but several scavengers
came to investigate or eat part of the carcass. The most
common visitor was the turkey vulture, followed by other
bird species, then coyotes and small rodents. One carcass was visited and consumed by a black bear, which resulted in the mountain lion leaving the kill and the general area for a few weeks. The presence of a black bear visiting the mountain lion kill may have forced her to make additional kills rather than to compete with the larger predator, especially since she had two vulnerable kittens. These dynamics may shift prey choice and predation strategies, but more data would be needed to tease apart those interactions.



www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://escholarship.org/content/qt5rg5q7m3/qt5rg5q7m3.pdf%3Ft%3Dpj62nu&ved=2ahUKEwi86unmnfX6AhX_FLkGHUq_AvAQFnoECAgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0W8pL_Qkm547jSoyerx3tF

[oldcyansilverback]

/\ Robbing a female with cubs is more common as a female cougar has to hunt more often.

[Gorilla king]

COUGAR RUNS AWAY FROM YOUNG BLACK BEAR IN THE CANADIAN ROCKIES:

[Gorilla king]

I just went through this whole thread, so up to now, we have 6 videos of cougars running away from bears while there is only 1 of the other way around which some say its just a staged video from an animal show. Add this to all the reliable accounts and data that we have and we can clearly see who is the master.

[arctozilla]

I don't care what those old accounts of cougars killing bears say, they're just more "reliable" than the many accounts of bears killing bisons in a single paw strike. Old hunting accounts are not trustable, the biologists say the opposite.

[Jiren]

Even biologists find them fishy and not reliable.

[Gorilla king]

Old hunting accounts are not trustable, the biologists say the opposite.

That depends on what the account says, you dont think Jim Corbett's account of a big Himalayan black bear displacing a big male Bengal tiger from its kill is reliable?

Reply #10:

beargorillarealm.proboards.com/post/326/thread

Difference is this account has never been debunked, even tiger fans accept it, the old cougar killing grizzlies accounts have been debunked, firstly by official Yellowstone data, which shows that cougars cant even kill a bear cub, and grizzlies used to be larger before, so if cougars were killing grizzlies 150-200 years ago, then why not now that they got smaller? And secondly, those accounts have been disproven by better hunters, like Theodore Roosevelt, and by biologists. So it really depends what the hunter states, some are reliable, some are not.

[Gorilla king]

Once a cache is discovered, a bear can easily displace a cougar from it, causing both a loss of food and the need to expend more energy hunting. During May 2017, F207 killed three elk over seven days due to bear displacements.







books.google.com.ar/books?id=eAVBEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA227&dq=Despite+cougars%27+attempts+to+conceal+kills+from+scavengers+by+caching+(covering+with+dirt

[oldcyansilverback]

Cinnamon bear and cougar size comparison.

Credits to Taker.

[Montezuma]

From Phil Johnston, who is a professional wildlife tracker, photographer, nature writer, outdoor educator and musician. He lives in Humboldt County in far Northern California where he works for the Hoopa Valley Tribe as the Mountain Lion Biologist.

mountainlion.org/2020/11/03/mountain-lion-kill-site-forensics-identifying-predation-scavenging-and-kleptoparasitism/

Some images might be sensitive for some users so i would post them here. For those see the link. Thanks!

"While we often think of mountain lions as top predators, it is important to remember that throughout the 5 million year period since their divergence with their closest living relative, the jaguarundi, mountain lions were actually subordinate and vulnerable to a diverse array of extremely formidable terrestrial carnivores including short-faced bears, dire wolves, saber-toothed cats and more. In fact, mountain lions are still subordinate to wolves and bears (both black and grizzly), all of which occasionally kill mountain lions and regularly steal their kills (kleptoparasitism). This subordinate status lead mountain lions to evolve a suite of covert and clandestine behaviors which decrease the detectability of their kills on the landscape in order to reduce kleptoparasitism, as well as minimize the danger to themselves that is inherent when conflict over carcasses ensues. There are three distinct elements to this covert behavior which are present at most mountain lion kills and those are 1) Hiding, 2) Caching and 3) Latrines."

"Drag mark where a female lion drug a buck downhill to a secluded feeding site in the brush in the background of the frame. Right: The buck from the left picture after the kill had been kleptoparasitized by a black bear, and drug out of the lion’s secluded feeding site and left out in the open. Note the drag mark leading backwards from the buck and up to the top right corner of the frame." (See image)

"Black bears will often drag a kill from where they discover it as well, but where they drag them to often lacks the strategic purpose that appears in mountain lion drags. Bears will often drag a carcass a hundred yards or more just to leave it completely exposed in the full sun, a behavior which is inexplicable to me. Bears tend to drag large carcasses in a direct line, choosing to go over or break through obstacles such as fences or thickets, whereas mountain lions tend to go around these barriers. Large black bears are much more powerful than mountain lions, and they are capable of dragging larger carcasses over fences or bending and breaking strong wire fences, while mountain lions tend to drag large carcasses right up to a fence and feed on it from the other side, through the fence, rather than attempt to drag the carcass over the fence. Bears also feed in a semi-haphazard way, tearing away at whatever part of the deer is most accessible, and this can result in carcass that are mutilated in very asymmetrical, random seeming ways. I think this speaks to the fact that for a bear a deer carcass is a very occasional bonanza, something that happens so irregularly that perhaps they don’t have the opportunity to develop a methodical order of feeding, whereas for mountain lions deer carcasses are their bread and butter, and everything about the way they feed on them is designed for efficiency and discreteness. When bears feed on deer for several days it is common for the kill to end up partially spread around, with a few bits of hide, bone and fur left over in various beds they’ve used while feeding. In these cases, it is common to find a mostly intact spinal column, sometimes with the pelvis still articulated, with a scapula or two and skull elsewhere but nearby. When coyotes and wolves feed on ungulate carcasses the result is typically quite a yard-sale, as the carcass is scattered about by the individual pack members who each retreat to his/her own preferred corner to feed. Compared to all other North America predators mountain lions are exceptionally tidy with their kills, although this excludes bobcats and lynx whose feeding habits are similar but lack the tendency/ability to break large bones as mentioned previously."

"Left: A lion kill stolen by a black bear who drug the kill out from the lion’s cache to leave it in the full sun on a summer day. Note the atypical feeding pattern which resulted in the deer being torn in half. Right: a buck killed by a lion but mostly fed on by a bear. Note how the meat has been pulled and shredded off the ribs but the ribs have not been eaten themselves – lions always feed by eating the rib bones and meat simultaneously." (See image)

"Above: A typical mountain lion cache sensible, subtle, and absolutely no larger than it needs to be. Below: A typical black bear cache where the deer was completely buried almost one foot deep in vegetation, and the surrounding area is scraped bare for about 6 feet in all directions (Note: I uncovered the deer for the photograph).Above: A typical mountain lion cache sensible, subtle, and absolutely no larger than it needs to be. Below: A typical black bear cache where the deer was completely buried almost one foot deep in vegetation, and the surrounding area is scraped bare for about 6 feet in all directions (Note: I uncovered the deer for the photograph)." (See image)

"A buck killed by a mountain lion and kleptoparasitized and partially cached by a black bear. Note the amount of debris stuffed into the abdomen and the deep circular bed right in front of the buck." (See image)


"Another typically deep and well-worn bear bed right on top of a young deer carcass which was killed by a mountain lion and stolen by the bear." (See image)


"As a safety note, black bears can be very defensive of carcasses and some individuals are likely to bluff-charge if you attempt to displace them from the kill, and some may even attack. Mountain lions however are almost never defensive of kills when humans approach, but in any case it is extremely important to be very aware of your surroundings when at a kill-site, especially if there is sign of a bear around."

"A black bear, awoken from his slumber atop a deer kill stolen from a mountain lion, launches immediately into a charge." (See image)

mountainlion.org/2020/11/03/mountain-lion-kill-site-forensics-identifying-predation-scavenging-and-kleptoparasitism/

[Montezuma]

Final points drawn from Bear and Cougar intereaction in wild. (Note, only a few experts are quoted, not all)


1. Grizzly and Black Bears generally dominate cougars and cougars avoid them. (Panthera.org, Mark Elbruch, Phil johnson Anna Kusler, Vinnecaro and Mario, Wilmer, Wilmer Ronald Koys, Brani, Jose Castello, Kortello, Ruth, Andrew marcus, videos)

2. Grizzly bears and Black bears are very dominant and threatening Kleptoparasites of cougars. (Murphy, Max Allen, Wayne Lynch, Dan Lambert, videos)

3. A Grizzly bear can defeat a cougar in a fight. (Milton skinner)

4. A Black bear can defeat a cougar in a fight. (Spencer Peter)

5. The accounts of cougars killing mature bears in fights are merely unauthentic stories. (BOOK: The new nature library, Rossevelt, Milton Skinner)

6. Cougars occasionally will only kill cubs or subadult bears. (Bruce Wright, Wittmer, LeCount)

7. Bears, including cubs, arn't in cougar's diet (TABLE: Yellowstone's cougar diet from 1987-2019)

8. There are some reliable, though rare, cases of bears easily killing mature male or female pumas. (Accounts)