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Post by oldcyansilverback on Jan 27, 2022 19:00:52 GMT -5
Everyone. How much weight advantage do you guys think a brown bear needs over a tiger or lion in order to win?
I think a male brown bear can win at weight parity. I will explain later.
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Post by Gorilla king on Jan 27, 2022 19:48:59 GMT -5
I voted for 100 lbs. With an 100 lb weight advantage the brown bear will already start winning more often than not, but just barely.
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Jan 28, 2022 3:22:11 GMT -5
I voted for 100 lbs. With an 100 lb weight advantage the brown bear will already start winning more often than not, but just barely. At weight parity most brown bear subspecies which are similar in weight to tigers and lions are female (e.g the female brown bear almost the same weight as Dale). |
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Post by brobear on Jan 29, 2022 4:43:57 GMT -5
I voted: Weight parity is enough depending on gender.
I believe that a 500-pound male grizzly could defeat a 500-pound male Bengal tiger, even though the tiger will have some advantage in HB length and bipedal height. The grizzly is still stronger, more durable, and has greater stamina ( to name a few of his advantages ).
Edit and add: there is a reason why a tiger never ambushes a bear his own size or bigger. It is the big cat who has need of a weight advantage when faced with a brown bear.
And; I would wager on the grizzly in a weight-parity fight against the bigger tiger, even though this is not a fair fight when the tiger is given ( on a silver platter ) an unfair advantage.
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Post by arctozilla on Jan 29, 2022 11:35:42 GMT -5
Even at weight parity brown bears are stronger, even female brown bears gave male tigers tough fights.
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Post by Gorilla king on Feb 3, 2022 16:13:59 GMT -5
Looks like weight parity is winning right now 3-2 over an 100 lb weight advantage.
At other forums, most people favor a tiger/lion over a brown bear at weight parity, the little detail that all those people fail to mention is that depending on which brown bear subspecies they are talking about, a brown bear at weight parity with a tiger would be a subadult male with little experience, so in their little mind they are thinking its "adult male tiger vs adult male brown bear", for example, if the fight is at the weight level of an Amur tiger at 440 lbs: "at weight parity i favor a Siberian tiger over an Ussuri brown bear!", yeah no shit pal, you favor an adult male tiger with experience over a subadult brown bear with little experience, congratulations. (So if you want a hypothetical weight parity fight with both animals being adult males, you would have to think of a fight at the Ussuri brown bear's weight level of 630 lbs, you would need an Amur tiger that large which is the same as finding gold)
For example, if its a Barren ground grizzly, then you can have a weight parity match-up with both animals being adult males, so i definitely think an adult male grizzly bear would do better vs a tiger than lets say a sub adult Ussuri brown bear.
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Feb 4, 2022 7:32:34 GMT -5
I think the male barren ground grizzly is the only male brown bear that is equal to a tiger and lion at weight parity.
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Feb 4, 2022 10:47:32 GMT -5
What about a male Ussuri brown bear at the smaller end of the scale and a male Siberian tiger at the upper end of the scale? Maybe their weights might overlap or the brown bear would still be slightly heavier.
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Post by Gorilla king on Feb 4, 2022 11:01:05 GMT -5
What about a male Ussuri brown bear at the smaller end of the scale and a male Siberian tiger at the upper end of the scale? Maybe their weights might overlap or the brown bear would still be slightly heavier.
beargorillarealm.proboards.com/post/85/thread
While the latest data for Amur tigers indicates that the largest tiger was 254 kg (560 lbs):
Reply #28:
beargorillarealm.proboards.com/post/4344/thread
So if we take the smallest adult male Ussuri browns and the largest adult male Amurs, there are overlaps in weights and as we can see the Amur can even be larger. |
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 5, 2022 21:02:10 GMT -5
I voted for the bear because despite of being on similar weight, it has brute strength, stronger and more flexible forelimbs, strong paw-strike, thicker neck, more stamina, more durability of skin, face-to-face fighter nature, more intelligence and better grappling ability. |
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Post by brobear on Apr 6, 2022 3:14:38 GMT -5
Weight advantage a brown bear needs over a tiger or lion ?
As we know, we can't study the lion/bear relationship in the wild. It's been centuries since these two great beasts have shared an environment and no records were kept. But, we can study the relationship between the tiger and bears.
Fact: there is no confirmed account of a tiger ever killing a bear as heavy or heavier than himself. Even though the tiger prefers large prey animals, he will always choose a bear smaller than himself as potential prey to be ambushed.
My conclusion: the question should be, "How much of a weight advantage does a lion or a tiger need to kill a full-grown male brown bear?"
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 8, 2023 2:42:12 GMT -5
I think these subspecies of adult male brown bears can kill or defeat lions or tigers.
Kodiak bears, Grizzly bears (all subspecies), Alaskan Brown bears, Ussuri brown bears, Eurasian brown bears, Kamchatka brown bears, Atlas brown bears, European Brown bears (with the exception of Iberian bears) and Himalayan brown bears.
Polar bears are simply an overmatch and a very huge black bear can defeat them. All other bears are smaller so they would lose.
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Apr 8, 2023 4:48:52 GMT -5
/\ I agree with you on most things but the Himalayan brown bear (red bear) is dominated by the Asiatic black bear.
It is the most passive of the brown bears.
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Apr 8, 2023 4:51:09 GMT -5
Reply 10. How much weight advantage does a tiger or lion need to win? If it has between 50 to 100 pounds weight advantage, it will be the usual winner in my opinion. At weight parity, male vs male, these big cats have a good chance to win but the brown bear will have a slight chance in winning.
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Apr 8, 2023 4:57:53 GMT -5
Sergey Aramilev claims that when it comes to two heavy weights, the tiger will win due to knowing where to bite (was probably referring to weight parity?). He did say a tiger will avoid a large brown bear. He did say a brown bear has a slight chance of defeating a small male tiger or tigress.
My guess: he supports tigers at parity but he believes the larger male brown bear will win.
Since male Ussuri brown bears outweigh a male tiger at paver age weights, the brown bear wins overall at 7/10.
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Post by Gorilla king on Apr 8, 2023 6:35:56 GMT -5
/\ I agree with you on most things but the Himalayan brown bear (red bear) is dominated by the Asiatic black bear. It is the most passive of the brown bears. |
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Post by Gorilla king on Apr 8, 2023 6:42:05 GMT -5
He meant to say in an ambush attack, lmao.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 11, 2023 2:45:37 GMT -5
/\ I agree with you on most things but the Himalayan brown bear (red bear) is dominated by the Asiatic black bear. It is the most passive of the brown bears.
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Post by Gorilla king on Apr 11, 2023 7:43:13 GMT -5
A very small bear bro, the smallest brown bear subspecies.Bear conservation actually says up to 400 kg (881 lbs), but this is not a scientific weight chart so its not that reliable, other sources state differently, like this one, which states up to 200 kg (440 lbs)
Another non-scientific source:
Weight: 70 to 160 kg ( 154 to 352.74 pounds )
Description of the Himalayan brown bear
This bear is small and squat.
Reply #73:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/58493/thread
The Himalayan brown bear (U. a. isabellinus) is another rival for smallest subspecies, in Pakistan this subtype averages about 70 kg (150 lb) in females and 135 kg (298 lb) in males.
www.inaturalist.org/guide_taxa/889098
By all the sources, it looks like the average would be around 300 lbs, that is much smaller than Siberians/Bengals.
But we dont have scientific weights for this bear, so we can just go by all of this. But according to brobear, the red bear (Himalayan brown bear) is actually smaller and less aggressive than the black bear:
Reply #8:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/4971/thread
The Himalayan black bear reaches 400 lbs, so if the Himalayan brown bear is smaller than that means its smaller than the Siberian or bengal tiger on average, that means it would definitely lose at average weights. Of course if you have a monster 800 lb specimen it would win, but it doesn't look that way. There are also no great achievements for the Himalayan brown bear on record, like hunting larger animals or maybe winning a captive fight against a tiger.
So no, at average weights, this bear is not defeating a tiger, this my opinion anyways, which is not carved in stone.
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Post by Gorilla king on Apr 11, 2023 8:04:52 GMT -5
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