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Post by arctozilla on Aug 6, 2021 4:08:16 GMT -5
Let me debunk Apex Titan a.k.a Apex Moron for a second...
“Im often asked who would win between a tiger and bear. As rule the tiger wins.”
That comes from a presentation made by Timofei Bazhenov.
This isn't however a valid source. Despite his education in zoology, he isn't neither a hunter, nor a scientist. He knows nothing about tigers and bears in RFE, his career is on presentation of tv entertainment like this.
Here he picks a woman.
No one understands what is happening here including Bazhenov.
Same shyt.
Credits to @nyers
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 6, 2021 7:31:58 GMT -5
Problem here is the interpretation of words and meanings. He says "As a rule" because tigers hunt bears, this of course is mostly done by ambush. So he is really not taking about a "fight", he is talking about ambush hunting.
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 6, 2021 8:02:05 GMT -5
Problem here is the interpretation of words and meanings. He says "As a rule" because tigers hunt bears, this of course is mostly done by ambush. So he is really not taking about a "fight", he is talking about ambush hunting. How do you know that? |
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 6, 2021 8:10:18 GMT -5
Problem here is the interpretation of words and meanings. He says "As a rule" because tigers hunt bears, this of course is mostly done by ambush. So he is really not taking about a "fight", he is talking about ambush hunting. How do you know that? |
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 6, 2021 8:10:32 GMT -5
Anyway the ignorant tiger fantards seem to read just one part of the test because it actually says then it takes a big brown bear to win against a tiger. Here's the proof. “As a rule a tiger wins but it occurs a brown bear may win if it is big.”  |
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 6, 2021 8:22:14 GMT -5
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 8, 2021 10:20:23 GMT -5
You remember this account of the tiger killing a brown bear after 20 minute fight...  The original source is Tiger and other Predators by G. F. Gorokhov (1973), right? It says that the bear was female and that gave tough fight to the tiger (note the tiger crawled back part). Here's the proof. “A strong tiger protects its prey from a brown bear. Here is one such case observed by an amateur hunter V.N. Tvilinev on a September day. Having climbed the ridge of a hill covered with a rare oak tree, about 150 meters away he saw a brown bear with a first-year cub. She left upon a clearing where she found a roe deer eaten by someone and began to eat it. Suddenly the bear stood abruptly on her hind legs, turning her whole body to the side. A large tiger came out of the thicket of hazel, where it was looking, rushing with a roar to the bear. Both animals spun in a fierce fight, crushing one another. The tiger was more often upstairs. About 20 minutes later the bear was finished. The tiger crawled back into the undergrowth. The little bear who was not far away during the fight went to the motionless mother, sniffed her, lay down beside her.” Tigers and other Predators - G.F Gorokhov credits to Mountain Lord. carnivora.net/siberian-tiger-v-ussuri-brown-bear-t8294-s405.htmlQuote: ML without realizing that he debunked one of his account himself. |
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 8, 2021 10:45:23 GMT -5
Reply #86, well yeah, its already well known it was a female and she put up a fierce 20 minute fight.
This is very sad, but its nature.
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 8, 2021 10:57:04 GMT -5
"Tigers tackle bears much larger than themselves. Bears are generally afraid of tigers, and run away from their tracks:"  So , the original source name is "Baikov 1925" Here you go "Маньчжурский тигр. Н.А. Байков. Харбин, 1925 г." Особенно крупные тигры справляются и с медведем почти одного с ним веса. Для этого хищник выслеживает мишку и делает засаду обыкновенно на скале или в буреломе с подветренной стороны. Беспечный медведь, ничего не подозревая, медленно идет мимо засады, и тигр бросается на него сверху, хватает когтями одной лапы под подбородок, другой за горло и перекусывает шейные позвонки. Иногда медведь во-время замечает опасность, и тогда, если чувствует себя не в силах бороться с врагом, спасается на ближайшее дерево, куда тигр последовать за ним не может, не умея лазить по деревьям. Случается, что тигр терпеливо ожидает под деревом, пока медведю не надоест сидеть на дереве, и он не спустится вниз, но чаще в таких случаях тигр делает вид, что уходит, а сам следит за медведем, когда тот спустится с дерева, и устраивает ему снова засаду. Словом, ни одно животное в тайге Маньчжурии не гарантировано от нападения страшного хищника, начиная с медведя и кончая зайцем. Человек гарантирован менее всех, как самый беззащитный, если, конечно, он не имеет при себе солидного оружия в виде современной малокалиберной винтовки или штуцера-экспресс. www.sixote-alin.ru/books/baikov/h1.htmlAne here is better * translation: "A rather big tiger would defeat a bear of almost the same weight. For this purpose, the predator tracks down the bear and makes an ambush, ordinarily on a rock or in wind-fallen trees, taking the side against the wind. Carelessly a bear slowly goes by an ambush, suspecting nothing, and the tiger rushes out on it from above, its one paw claws under the bear's chin, the other paw at the throat, and the tiger bites through the neck vertebrae. Sometimes the bear notices the danger in time, and not feeling able to struggle with this enemy, it escapes into the nearest tree, where the tiger cannot follow, being unable to climb the trees. It is possible that the tiger would patiently wait under the tree, till the bear is tired out of sitting in the tree and then it comes down, but more often in such cases the tiger would pretend to be leaving the place, whereas it would hide in a new ambush and watch the bear come down. In a word, there is no animal in the Manchurian taiga guaranteed against attack of the terrible predator, starting from the bear and finishing with the hare. The man is guaranteed less than others, as most defenseless, of course, if he is not armed with a good weapon such as a modern small caliber rifle or a carbine" www.sixote-alin.ru/books/baikov/he1.htmlOne note: So Baikov state that tigers are able to kill bears of almost up to their own size via ambush .Notice the word "bear" .& "escapes into the nearest tree, where the tiger cannot follow, being unable to climb the trees" credits to Warsaw |
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 8, 2021 11:10:42 GMT -5
And this statement proves am right when i talk about the "interpretation" of phrases. "A rather big tiger would defeat a bear of almost the same weight" and then it goes on to say its by ambush. This means that when a biologist states that a tiger would defeat a bear in a "fight", he really means it would successfully predate on a bear, by ambush, they are not talking about a "fight".
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 8, 2021 11:28:54 GMT -5
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 8, 2021 11:29:06 GMT -5
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 8, 2021 11:49:27 GMT -5
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 8, 2021 11:56:32 GMT -5
Yeah, that is a great account. Joshua James was "Rorqual" on forums by the way, he does not post anymore.
G.F. Gorokhov (1973) writes about another battle, in which there was no winner. The tiger, having noticed a bear walking towards him, lay behind an eversion. Letting the bear closer, he overtook him from the second jump. The bear took the fight. Animals long fought, and both parted with blood. The tiger was coughing up blood after a collision. Brown bear able to not only provide decent resistance to the tiger that attacked him, but also get out of scrum winner.
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Post by tyrannosaurs on Aug 19, 2021 11:02:13 GMT -5
Can anybody access a study named: Ecology of Amur Tigers in Primorye? I cannot access it and there might be some valuable information on tiger predation on brown bears there.
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 19, 2021 11:06:12 GMT -5
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Post by tyrannosaurs on Aug 19, 2021 13:22:35 GMT -5
Thanks man.
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Post by tyrannosaurs on Aug 19, 2021 13:23:40 GMT -5
Still doesn't work. Eh, doesn't matter.
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 19, 2021 13:38:58 GMT -5
Still doesn't work. Eh, doesn't matter.
This area also contains the last existing population of Amur leopards, of which about 30 individuals remain in the wild. Current plans for leopard recovery include ecological
research, construction of a captive breeding center, establishment of a second population,
and possible supplementation of the existing population by releasing captive animals into
the wild. A clear understanding of tiger ecology and the relationship between the two
species is critical to the successful recovery of Amur leopards. Competition with tigers
may be an important factor to conservation planning in the region. According to Valov
(1989), historical evidence clearly suggests that leopards were common in Lazovskii
Zapovednik at a time when the tiger was absent. As tiger numbers increased during the 1960s and early 1970s, leopard tracks were less often encountered, and then disappeared entirely. A documented kill of a leopard by a tiger was reported in March 2001 in the Borisovkoe Hunting Lease and Mr. V.N. Dyukov, an inspector with Inspection Tiger, has twice found leopards killed by tigers. Additionally, evidence indicates spatial separation between leopards and tigers, suggesting that leopards may avoid areas inhabited by tigers (Figure 2, Miquelle and Murzine 2001). Competition between leopards and tigers has been reported elsewhere (Seidensticker 1976, McDougal 1988) and, at the northern fringe of its range, leopards may be at a significant disadvantage in competing with tigers. A detailed understanding of the ecology of both species is essential to conserving them, and will help in the evaluation of conflicts between tiger and leopard conservation.
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Post by tyrannosaurs on Aug 19, 2021 18:04:33 GMT -5
Off... Well, sorry for wasting your time again!
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