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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 19, 2021 18:27:56 GMT -5
Off... Well, sorry for wasting your time again! |
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Aug 20, 2021 3:41:58 GMT -5
Reply 93. Nice translation and well done. Also a bear that escapes into a tree is not a male Ussuri brown bear. It is most likely an adult male Asiatic black bear at most or a sub adult Ussuri brown bear. Full grown males are too heavy to climb.
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 20, 2021 9:48:26 GMT -5
Watch: Siberian Tiger Flees Cave of Sleeping Female Leopard (it says large tiger at the bottom)
"In addition to showcasing the beautiful feline predators up close, the footage shocked some of the scientists in the reserve when the large tiger fled after sighting the sleeping leopard—an unlikely show of courteousness, or perhaps cowardice."
"The tiger was not frightened by the leopard, but more likely he spotted a hibernating bear in the cave.”
www.newsweek.com/watch-siberian-tiger-flees-cave-sleeping-female-leopard-728622?amp=1
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 21, 2021 14:38:16 GMT -5
Reply 93. Nice translation and well done. Also a bear that escapes into a tree is not a male Ussuri brown bear. It is most likely an adult male Asiatic black bear at most or a sub adult Ussuri brown bear. Full grown males are too heavy to climb. That's what I was saying too. I'm also glad you approve my job. |
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 21, 2021 14:40:24 GMT -5
"The tiger was not frightened by the leopard, but more likely he spotted a hibernating bear in the cave.”
I didn't understand that part. So there was an hibernating bear in the leopard's den but what was it doing here? Does it share its den with the leopard?? |
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 21, 2021 14:47:43 GMT -5
G.F. Gorokhov (1973) writes about another battle, in which there was no winner. The tiger, having noticed a bear walking towards him, lay behind an eversion. Letting the bear closer, he overtook him from the second jump. The bear took the fight. Animals long fought, and both parted with blood. The tiger was coughing up blood after a collision. Brown bear able to not only provide decent resistance to the tiger that attacked him, but also get out of scrum winner. Anyway if you reflect about this account this is obviously a bear pushing a male adult tiger off a kill and why? Both animals are referred as “he” and the description says that the tiger gave lomg fight to bear so if it was a juvenile tiger then it won't even be able to fight the bear because the only tigers that are able to confront male adult brown bears are male adult tigers. |
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 21, 2021 14:52:17 GMT -5
That event is kind of confusing i know. At first they thought the tiger and leopard were there the same day, but then they realized it was 5 days apart, so they think the tiger got scared of a hibernating brown bear, and it has happened other times so its perfectly possible, TSTP recorded a tigress turning away from a hibernating male bear. Also, read this, a leopard would had run away from a tiger upon sensing it, not the other way around, so it was most likely a bear:
According to the reserve's record, leopards are highly skilled at sensing bigger predators and fleeing, so any close interaction between the tiger and its smaller, spotted cousin is unlikely to have happened, even off camera. Recordings of run-ins and conflicts between species in the reserve are virtually nonexistent.
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 21, 2021 15:00:42 GMT -5
G.F. Gorokhov (1973) writes about another battle, in which there was no winner. The tiger, having noticed a bear walking towards him, lay behind an eversion. Letting the bear closer, he overtook him from the second jump. The bear took the fight. Animals long fought, and both parted with blood. The tiger was coughing up blood after a collision. Brown bear able to not only provide decent resistance to the tiger that attacked him, but also get out of scrum winner.[/font][/quote] Anyway if you reflect about this account this is obviously a bear pushing a male adult tiger off a kill and why? Both animals are referred as “he” and the description says that the tiger gave lomg fight to bear so if it was a juvenile tiger then it won't even be able to fight the bear because the only tigers that are able to confront male adult brown bears are male adult tigers. [/quote] this is a case of a male tiger trying to hunt a subadult male brown bear, see how it starts, the bear was just walking. it says the tiger was the one who attacked, this means it was trying to hunt the bear, and we know tigers completely avoid adult male brown bears, so this was most likely a male tiger (adult or subadult) losing to a subadult male brown bear, even being ambushed. |
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 21, 2021 15:00:47 GMT -5
@king Kodiak oh yes, you're right. I forgot to add that “although I must give credits to Warsaw”.
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Aug 21, 2021 18:37:12 GMT -5
Reply 93. Nice translation and well done. Also a bear that escapes into a tree is not a male Ussuri brown bear. It is most likely an adult male Asiatic black bear at most or a sub adult Ussuri brown bear. Full grown males are too heavy to climb. That's what I was saying too. I'm also glad you approve my job. STP has refuted the account of Dale ‘killing’ male Ussuri brown bears twice his weight. Therefore, the account which says a tiger will attack a bear much larger than himself is a mistranslation. Well done once again for reposting that account. |
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 26, 2021 13:24:58 GMT -5
Anyway I think this account belongs to this thread.  Quote: that proves that only male tigers are likely to hunt brown bears (at least not adult males). In fact only two cases of tigresses killing brown bears are known from literature and all these were small individuals (one was a subadult male and the other a small denning female of 100kgs). |
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 26, 2021 16:25:55 GMT -5
Noe let's discuss about this account. www.themoscowtimes.com/2015/07/14/putins-tiger-kills-bear-a48137“There wasn't much left of Boris' feast by the time we got to his hunting ground, so it's hard to say whether it was a brown bear or an Asian black bear,” Kastrikin said. I would think that, had Boris killed a large brown bear, there would be something left such as a paw or the head. ( IMO ) obviously a small bear (credited to brobear). |
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 26, 2021 16:39:24 GMT -5
Reply #116, well yeah, they cant even know if the bear was brown or black, no age, no sex, nothing. But you know how we know its not an adult male brown bear? Because very recently, on June 27 of this year, Dale Miquelle said he does not know of any case of a tiger killing an adult male brown bear:
Reply #32:
beargorillarealm.proboards.com/post/1147/thread
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 26, 2021 16:45:33 GMT -5
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 27, 2021 4:23:33 GMT -5
I found another article talking about Boris killing another brown bear, this time an adult. tiger.sevin-expedition.ru/news/news_144.htmlHowever it seems not confirmed because if the account is from 2015 then in 2019 siberiantiger_center said on Instagram that Boris has been confirmed killing a bear only once 5 years ago.  |
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 27, 2021 4:29:54 GMT -5
Quote: in 2019 siberiantiger_center said on Instagram that Boris has been confirmed killing a bear only once 5 years ago.
2019 - 5 = 2014
So the case of Boris killing a young bear in 2015 wasn't confirmed either, because considering that the account is from 2015 and in 2019 siberiantiger_center said that Boris has been confirmed killing a bear only once 5 years ago (2014) so the verdict is that the account is literally unconfirmed. Also Dinopithecus stated there's no proof that the tiger really killed the bear and it would still be sign of scavenging.
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 27, 2021 4:34:52 GMT -5
Note:
“only once in 5 years during monotoring in the reserve Juravliny a case was fixed when Boris attacked a bear.”
“This was not the first time the big cat had vanquished an ursine rival: Boris killed a 3 year old bear last August, Interfax reported.”
So we have this confirmed account of Boris killing a 3 years old bear in the August of 2014. But whatever It's not specified what type of bear, also is a 2 years old tiger around the same maturity of a 3 years old brown bear? We need more details now.
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 27, 2021 4:44:41 GMT -5
I did a quick search on Google and Warsaw posted the case right here on Carnivora. Check here at reply #4022. 👇 carnivora.net/siberian-tiger-v-ussuri-brown-bear-t8294-s4020.htmlIn the same case, it was confirmed that: В августе 2014 года "Борис проверил растущую мощь на трехгодовалом медведе. На туше хищника тигр пировал три дня, затем продолжил охотиться, перемещаясь в районе Каменки" In August 2014, "Boris tested the growing power on a three-year-old bear. The tiger feasted on the carcass of a predator for three days, then continued to hunt, moving in the Kamenka area." www.interfax-russia.ru/far-east ... lsya-v-eao This indicates that the bear was small. |
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 27, 2021 6:59:09 GMT -5
Well, like i said before, none of those articles matter because one of the most important authorities in the Russian Far East, Dale Miquelle, said he does not know of any cases of a tiger killing an adult male brown bear, this is all that matters. To have a confirmed case, it needs to be part of a peer reviewed scientific study, like TSTP.
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 27, 2021 7:31:14 GMT -5
I found another article talking about Boris killing another brown bear, this time an adult. tiger.sevin-expedition.ru/news/news_144.htmlHowever it seems not confirmed because if the account is from 2015 then in 2019 siberiantiger_center said on Instagram that Boris has been confirmed killing a bear only once 5 years ago. ibb.co/129Nn8p
No sex stated. And since there are no confirmed cases of a tiger ever killing an adult male brown bear, this was most likely an adult female.
Second of all, all the inconsistencies you just mentioned, Boris only killed 1 bear, which not even the species was confirmed, and they said it was 2-3 years old. |
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