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Post by oldcyansilverback on Dec 10, 2021 17:41:02 GMT -5
I already have. Credited the source to you. |
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Post by arctozilla on Dec 12, 2021 11:24:52 GMT -5
Christmas present: found new account after sailing on Carnivora, posted by Warsaw. In the Far Eastern taiga Grigory Matveevich Linkov Одним словом, медведь в нашем лесу — настоящий хозяин. Он и ходит по лесу, как «леший», — ухает да прочих зверей пугает. — Но ведь здесь и тигр водится, — сказал я. — Пострашней медведя! Это тигр-то? — оживился Данила. — Тигр берет проворством, а медведь силой. Старый медведь тигра не боится, а тигр обходит медведя, не желает с ним встречаться. Один наш знаменитый охотник, теперь уже покойный, видел, как медведь дрался с тигром. Откудова, говорит, у медведя проворство взялось! По его словам, он на этом месте нашел потом остатки разодранного тигра. Некоторые старые медведи-стервятники ходят по тигровым следам и питаются ихней добычей, значит, они тигра не боятся. "In short, the bear in our forest is a real master. He walks through the forest like a "goblin" - hoots and scares other animals. “But there’s a tiger here too,” I said. - More terrible than a bear! Is it a tiger? - Danila perked up. - A tiger always wins with his nimbleness, and a bear with his strength. An old bear is not afraid of a tiger, but a tiger evades a bear, not wishing to meet him. One of our famous hunters, now deceased, saw a bear fighting a tiger. Why, he said, a bear has nimbleness! He said he found the remains of a tiger torn in the same place. Some old vulture bears follow tiger tracks and feed on their prey, which means they aren't afraid of the tiger." ohot-prostory.ru/index.php?id=18 |
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Post by Gorilla king on Dec 12, 2021 11:37:03 GMT -5
Reply #206, that is a great account, Grigory Matveevich Linkov is an experienced hunter. So according to him the bear is the real master, tigers avoid and are afraid of old bears, bears are not as they follow tigers to displace them, and another hunter saw a fight and the tiger died, has was torn up.
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Dec 12, 2021 14:38:52 GMT -5
Old male brown bears are also more bad tempered than the rest.
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Post by brobear on Dec 13, 2021 4:23:54 GMT -5
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Post by Gorilla king on Dec 14, 2021 21:47:47 GMT -5
Interesting but confusing account posted by Warsaw back at AVA in 2008:
Reply #11:
www.tapatalk.com/groups/animalsversesanimals/ursidae-more-info-t692-s10.html#p12590
He states this:
But the actual account states this:
According to А. Н. Формозов "По лисьим и волчьим нарыскам, по следам медведя, рыси идругих крупных хищников"
Бывает и так, что после бескормной осени медведи совсем не ложатся вберлогу и бродят всю зиму, с трудом раздобывая пищу. Таких медведей зовут шатунами. Я знаю случай нападения шатуна - небольшой медведицы - на более крупного медведя-самца, лежавшего в берлоге.
According to A. N. Formozov "By fox and wolf bumps, in the footsteps of a bear, lynx and other large predators" It also happens that after the fall without food, bears do not lie down in the berg at all and wander all winter, finding food with difficulty. These bears are called cranks. I know of a case when a connecting rod (shatun) - a small bear - attacked a larger male bear lying in a den.
(Here is the source but its not working anymore)
www.bearbiology.com/fileadmin/tpl/Downloads/IBN_Newsletters/IBN_May_2002.pdf
So Warsaw said the shatun was a female, and that it killed the larger male brown bear, but the actual account just says "small bear" and it just says it attacked a larger male bear in its den.
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Post by arctozilla on Dec 15, 2021 2:59:47 GMT -5
Tigers and brown bears meet each other in Manchurian region, Russian Far East. There are instances of tigers killing brown bears but this is however not a common occurrence (Sunquist & Sunquist, 2015), these bears aren't favorite prey item for tigers as they do comprise only 0 to 1.2% of tiger's diet and most of the individuals killed by tigers are females and young individuals and are generally killed by male adult tigers (Seryodkin et al. 2018). There are records of tigers killing adult male brown bears from literature but these reports are unconfirmed (Miquelle pers. communication). The largest bears killed by tigers are large female brown bears (Kerley pers. communication) but on other hand the large males appears to be invulnerable to tiger predation and can force tigers to give up their prey, they pose even a threat to male adult tigers (Miquelle et al. 2005; Tkachenko, 2012).
This is my interpretation with biologist references.
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Dec 26, 2021 0:23:43 GMT -5
Male Ussuri brown bears outweigh male Siberian tigers between 100 to 200 pounds, while that is enough weight advantage to win more often than not just not 10/10. That is another reason why a brown bear prefers a tigress. Another reason, a tigress with cubs has to hunt more often meaning more meat to rob.
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Jiren
Black bear
“Water can flow, or it can crash”.
Posts: 322
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Post by Jiren on Dec 27, 2021 18:39:38 GMT -5
Felids ( tigers , lions, etc) have relatively smaller pectoral and deltoid muscles than ursids (bears) and more shoulder stabilization ( Siliceo, 2012) “ . Most of these features suggest a higher degree of shoulder stabilization in relation to ursids and even to other, more bear-like amphicyonids. On the other hand, M. anceps also shows long greater tubercle crest and tricipital line, impliying large attachment areas for the muscles pectorales and deltoideus; these muscles control shoulder rotation and thus are related to manipulative behaviour, climbing or digging capacities (Barone, 2010; Argot, 2004; Argot, 2010). Both crests are long and rough in all ursids, and shorter in the more cursorial felids and canids, implying relatively smaller muscles in the latter. In M. anceps these crests are as long as in ursids (althouhg not as rough) suggesting powerful muscles pectorales and deltoideus, comparable to those of ursids.” www.researchgate.net/profile/Manuel-Salesa/publication/236133447_Aspects_of_the_shoulder_anatomy_of_the_Late_Miocene_amphicyonid_Magericyon_anceps/links/0deec5164320e50ae0000000/Aspects-of-the-shoulder-anatomy-of-the-Late-Miocene-amphicyonid-Magericyon-anceps.pdf?origin=publication_detail |
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Jiren
Black bear
“Water can flow, or it can crash”.
Posts: 322
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Post by Jiren on Dec 27, 2021 18:40:12 GMT -5
Bears have bigger and more developed pectoral muscles which contribute to overall upper-body strength. This is because the pectoral muscles are involved in so many different upper-body movements. This affects chest muscles, to push objects and heavy things. Bears are also have larger and more developed deltoid muscles, which play a large role in the movement and overall stability of the shoulder joint and upper arm.
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Post by arctozilla on Dec 28, 2021 4:54:19 GMT -5
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Jiren
Black bear
“Water can flow, or it can crash”.
Posts: 322
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Post by Jiren on Dec 30, 2021 18:16:21 GMT -5
S.P. Kucherenko - www.litmir.me/br/?b=559283&p=32For the winter, the Manchu brown bear usually lays down in a den. The tiger, having come across it, will not fail to crush its inhabitants and eat it. He does not touch only large males, which he unmistakably recognizes by smell. The smell tells the beast about a lot: the type, sex, age and size of the animal, its physiological state and health, even about the mood and intentions, and also, probably, about many things that we do not know about.In September 1966, in the upper reaches of the Ussuri, the hunter-fisherman V. Tvilenevwatched a fight between a tiger and a brown bear from a hill under the following circumstances. The she-bear with the bear cub went out to the roe deer that had not been eaten by someone and pounced on her greedily. Suddenly, at some instant, she sharply turned towards the dense hazel and sat down. After a while, a tiger came out of there, saw a bear and immediately, without hesitation, rushed at her. The fight was fierce, swift and accompanied by the roar of both animals. They flew to the sides, then again interlocked in a huge ball, in which flashed first yellow, then brown. The bear cub, meanwhile, was restlessly watching the fight. In the end, the bear calmed down, and the tiger, lying down, very slowly, swaying, went into the bushes. Several hours later V. Tvilenev came to the place of the fight. It resembled a plot that had just been grubbed for a vegetable garden - the trees and shrubs that had been torn out by the roots had not yet been removed. A dead bear lay there and then. There was literally no living place on it ... A bear cub whined mournfully at the body of the deceased mother. Another experienced fisherman K. Poddubny told me: “We were looking for ginseng. In the summer. They ran across our backs, and they roar throughout the taiga ... The tiger seemed to be on top more often, but apparently could not bite through the bear's neck in any way. They flew in the wind. They scattered, roared, grabbed again. Then, we looked, they jumped away from each other and stood, swayed. They harassed each other almost to death. And I think there was no winner, because the tiger scratched out the eyes of the clubfoot and he wandered into the forest , bumping into trees, the tiger did not go, or rather crawled: his legs did not hold ... ". Of the 17 cases of tiger-brown bear fights that I know for certain in the Sikhote-Alin in 1965-1976 . at eight the animals dispersed, at six the tiger killed the bear, and at three the bear defeated. In addition, nine cases of attacks on bears in dens were recorded, in which the tiger crushed and ate seven adult animals and nine cubs. Careful observations nevertheless indicate that in the relationship between the Amur tiger and the waking brown bear, the latter is more aggressive, and he chases the tiger and gets involved in a fight at a time when hungry, as a rule, in autumn, when nuts and acorns are in short supply. This is most typical for connecting rods. The tiger voluntarily attacks mainly small bears, knowingly confident of victory. The tigress, protecting the cubs, fights with any bear and dies more often. According to the materials of the zoologist V.E. Kostogloda, of the 28 cases of fights of these predators studied by him, the priority in attack was on the side of the brown bear; in 11 cases the tiger won, in 9 - the bear , 8 fights ended in vain. The bear is more aggressive than tiger, the tiger attacks smaller bears and avoid large males according to Kucherenko and the tigress often loses…. |
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Post by Gorilla king on Dec 31, 2021 17:23:41 GMT -5
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Post by fluffyfatbear on Jan 1, 2022 23:36:11 GMT -5
S.P. Kucherenko - www.litmir.me/br/?b=559283&p=32For the winter, the Manchu brown bear usually lays down in a den. The tiger, having come across it, will not fail to crush its inhabitants and eat it. He does not touch only large males, which he unmistakably recognizes by smell. The smell tells the beast about a lot: the type, sex, age and size of the animal, its physiological state and health, even about the mood and intentions, and also, probably, about many things that we do not know about.In September 1966, in the upper reaches of the Ussuri, the hunter-fisherman V. Tvilenevwatched a fight between a tiger and a brown bear from a hill under the following circumstances. The she-bear with the bear cub went out to the roe deer that had not been eaten by someone and pounced on her greedily. Suddenly, at some instant, she sharply turned towards the dense hazel and sat down. After a while, a tiger came out of there, saw a bear and immediately, without hesitation, rushed at her. The fight was fierce, swift and accompanied by the roar of both animals. They flew to the sides, then again interlocked in a huge ball, in which flashed first yellow, then brown. The bear cub, meanwhile, was restlessly watching the fight. In the end, the bear calmed down, and the tiger, lying down, very slowly, swaying, went into the bushes. Several hours later V. Tvilenev came to the place of the fight. It resembled a plot that had just been grubbed for a vegetable garden - the trees and shrubs that had been torn out by the roots had not yet been removed. A dead bear lay there and then. There was literally no living place on it ... A bear cub whined mournfully at the body of the deceased mother. Another experienced fisherman K. Poddubny told me: “We were looking for ginseng. In the summer. They ran across our backs, and they roar throughout the taiga ... The tiger seemed to be on top more often, but apparently could not bite through the bear's neck in any way. They flew in the wind. They scattered, roared, grabbed again. Then, we looked, they jumped away from each other and stood, swayed. They harassed each other almost to death. And I think there was no winner, because the tiger scratched out the eyes of the clubfoot and he wandered into the forest , bumping into trees, the tiger did not go, or rather crawled: his legs did not hold ... ". Of the 17 cases of tiger-brown bear fights that I know for certain in the Sikhote-Alin in 1965-1976 . at eight the animals dispersed, at six the tiger killed the bear, and at three the bear defeated. In addition, nine cases of attacks on bears in dens were recorded, in which the tiger crushed and ate seven adult animals and nine cubs. Careful observations nevertheless indicate that in the relationship between the Amur tiger and the waking brown bear, the latter is more aggressive, and he chases the tiger and gets involved in a fight at a time when hungry, as a rule, in autumn, when nuts and acorns are in short supply. This is most typical for connecting rods. The tiger voluntarily attacks mainly small bears, knowingly confident of victory. The tigress, protecting the cubs, fights with any bear and dies more often. According to the materials of the zoologist V.E. Kostogloda, of the 28 cases of fights of these predators studied by him, the priority in attack was on the side of the brown bear; in 11 cases the tiger won, in 9 - the bear , 8 fights ended in vain. The bear is more aggressive than tiger, the tiger attacks smaller bears and avoid large males according to Kucherenko and the tigress often loses…. That is golden |
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Jiren
Black bear
“Water can flow, or it can crash”.
Posts: 322
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Post by Jiren on Jan 2, 2022 0:28:57 GMT -5
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Post by fluffyfatbear on Jan 2, 2022 1:05:20 GMT -5
Yup. Bears defiantly have a larger skull and do bears have a pound for pound stronger bite than tigers? Not very sure myself
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Jiren
Black bear
“Water can flow, or it can crash”.
Posts: 322
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Post by Jiren on Jan 2, 2022 1:36:07 GMT -5
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Post by Gorilla king on Jan 2, 2022 8:01:48 GMT -5
Of course they do, all the skull size charts show that.
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Post by Gorilla king on Jan 2, 2022 8:03:09 GMT -5
Yup. Bears defiantly have a larger skull and do bears have a pound for pound stronger bite than tigers? Not very sure myself
Reply #2:
beargorillarealm.proboards.com/post/78/thread |
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Jiren
Black bear
“Water can flow, or it can crash”.
Posts: 322
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Post by Jiren on Jan 2, 2022 13:05:51 GMT -5
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