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Post by Montezuma on Apr 3, 2022 21:12:35 GMT -5
Most people, like me, believe that bears are not important creatures in middle east iconography. Yet after search alot about this topic, that the Syrian brown bear (the native bear of syria), is regarded as a royal symbol, fierce and exotic beast like the lion not only in Syria, but also in ancient mesopotamia and egypt where there were no bear habitats. In fact, this bear is mention the Hebrew bible and also in the new testament, giving the bear very importance as it some times play a good role rather than negative one. So lets get started. This bear was thought to be as fierce as a lion.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 3, 2022 21:14:21 GMT -5
This sources, starts us telling about bear importance in Near East after explaining the answer that why david mentioned the "bear" in his speech while addressing the king. "In this region (Fertile cresent), the bear is an exotic animal, with impressive stature and economic value."
"In the Hebrew bible, the bear described as a wild animal "untamable like the lion", who is frequently mentioned with lion, lives where lion lives and eats prey like lions. The bear is also depicted as a fearsome predator of humans and cattle."
"Bears are also used as metaphors for humans. For instance, a warrior acts like a bear befert of her cubs, a fool in his fooly is like a mother bear robbed of her cubs, and a wicked ruler is depicted as a "roaring lion and chasing bear" ". "Even Ywch is depicted as a bear on the day of the judgement." "In sum of Hebrew bible, the bear is depicted as fearsome and unpredictable animal that poses the danger same as on the level on lion. Their unpredictability referened in several passages, along with the regular placement on the second element of dyad "lion and bear" , suggest them to be more dangerous than lions, whose ferocity should be anticipated."
www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342978993_Snatched_from_the_Hand_of_the_Bear_A_Comparative_Perspective_on_the_Bear_in_David%27s_Speech_in_1_Sam_1734-37&ved=2ahUKEwilpK2kqPn2AhUo7rsIHUx_BugQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1WbhLfI7hP3AlqmSazl0ej
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Apr 4, 2022 1:23:11 GMT -5
Also in the Bible the Medes concurred Babylon. The Medes has the symbol of the brown bear while Babylon has the symbol of the lion.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 4, 2022 18:57:00 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 4, 2022 19:22:30 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 4, 2022 19:48:44 GMT -5
"Several clay and wooden creatures from Neo-Assyrian period also shows bear along with cats (including lions), dogs and anthropoids."
"In Neo-Assyrian period, the enemy kings were tied with at the city gate "like a bear" (dabu), "or tied eith a bear, dog or pig in the inner city gate of Nineveh. In mesopotamia, as in egypt, bears were connected in Syro-palestines for their ferocity."
"To summarize, bears in mesopotamian art represent exotic, isolated, wild, passive but fearsome creatures."
www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342978993_Snatched_from_the_Hand_of_the_Bear_A_Comparative_Perspective_on_the_Bear_in_David%27s_Speech_in_1_Sam_1734-37&ved=2ahUKEwjawoef3_v2AhVMwKQKHbKICb0QFnoECAYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1WbhLfI7hP3AlqmSazl0ej
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 4, 2022 20:36:32 GMT -5
Also in the Bible the Medes concurred Babylon. The Medes has the symbol of the brown bear while Babylon has the symbol of the lion. Thats true in Hebrew bible, it is said that:- " It did, however, have a problem with internal unity. Cyrus, a Persian, initiated the growth of the empire by usurping the Median throne with the help of the Median nobility. The empire, from this point on, was dominated by Persians, or as the Bible says, the "bear . . . was raised up on one side" (Daniel 7:5). The two arms of the image symbolize this division."
www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/2131/Bear-as-Symbol.htm&ved=2ahUKEwjanPi44_v2AhVOgP0HHU74A-UQFnoECEQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0stSczyhR4V8Y1KbFuegJz
"Verse Daniel 7:5. Another beast-like to a bear — This was the Medo-Persian empire, represented here under the symbol of the bear, as the largest species of these animals was found in Media, a mountainous, cold, and rough country, covered with woods. The Medes and Persians are compared to a bear on account of their cruelty and thirst after blood, a bear being a most voracious and cruel animal; the bear is termed by Aristotle an all-devouring animal; and the Medo-Persians are known to have been great robbers and spoilers. See Jeremiah 51:48-56. The Persians were notorious for the cruelty of their punishments. See Calmet.
Raised up itself on one side — Cyrus arose on the borders of Chaldea, and thus the bear appeared to put itself in the position to attack the lion.
It had three ribs in the mouth of it — As if it had just finished its repast on some animal that it had seized. Some think three tusks, curved like ribs, are meant; others three throats, עלעין illin, by which it (Cyrus) had absorbed the three empires of the Babylonians, Medes, and Persians; for these symbolic animals do not so much denote four empires, as four kings. See Daniel 7:17. Others think three row of teeth are meant to denote the triple power of the Medes, Persians, and Babylonians, conjoined. Or the east, north, and south, which were subdued by the Persians. But the ribs being between the teeth of the bear may show how Babylon, Lydia, and Egypt were ground and oppressed by the bear-the Persians; though, as ribs strengthen the body, they were a powerful support to their conquerors."
www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.studylight.org/commentary/daniel/7-5.html&ved=2ahUKEwj63KyB5fv2AhUYuKQKHWRXDMIQFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2QqwsIgcU5NpiZhRKCgZja
As the figure shows, a bear stands up, means persia is coming into power, while the three ribs in bear mouth show the kingdoms of Lydia, Babylon and Egypt conquered by the persia.
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Apr 5, 2022 6:09:37 GMT -5
/\ Yet the same bible calls the lion the mightiest. I believe it refers to its majestic and territorial nature, it doesn’t mean it is the strongest.
Similarly, I do not worry so much about the title ‘Master of the Taiga’. All I care about is which animal is stronger. And a larger male Ussuri brown bear will be stronger regardless of who is ‘Master of the Tiaga’.
Similarly a lion being called king of the beast and eagle called king of the birds doesn’t make them the strongest either.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 5, 2022 20:35:48 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 5, 2022 22:20:45 GMT -5
/\ Yet the same bible calls the lion the mightiest. I believe it refers to its majestic and territorial nature, it doesn’t mean it is the strongest. Similarly, I do not worry so much about the title ‘Master of the Taiga’. All I care about is which animal is stronger. And a larger male Ussuri brown bear will be stronger regardless of who is ‘Master of the Tiaga’. Similarly a lion being called king of the beast and eagle called king of the birds doesn’t make them the strongest either. To be honest, i don't take if even lion is given more importance than the bear. First, i thought bears are never visible in Near eastern cultures but later i researched and saw too much info that bears were also respected if not like the lion. Whatever is the case, i was really surprised that both in egypt and mespotamia, bears were symbols of fierceness and royality and enemy kings were shown as bears, while this gentle syrian bear is not even native in egypt or mesopotamia. And everything in this thread is not just from bible, there is also too much from ancient civilizations of egypt and iraq. When it comes to the master of the taiga, so i don't take if tiger is called because the bear is also called the same too. Anyway, my aim is to post information about bears symbolism in near eastern cultures. I am not comparing it with the lion, and if lion is ranked more, its ok for me. I don't care. I am very curious to read the whole article about brown bear representation in ancient egypt civilization, but the problem is that it does not opens, anybody got any way? www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.academia.edu/37357195/_2018_The_Bare_Essentials_the_representation_of_brown_bears_in_ancient_Egypt%23:~:text%3DThe%2520representations%2520indicate%2520that%252C%2520to
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Apr 6, 2022 1:04:47 GMT -5
That is all I got after clicking on the last link in the post above. Anyway, like I said a more majestic looking animal is not necessarily stronger than the less majestic looking animal. In fact the less majestic looking animal is often times the stronger one. Not trying to hijack the thread as I appreciate the effort done. One of the post just spark my interest and induced a comment .
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Post by Gorilla king on Apr 6, 2022 5:51:45 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 6, 2022 20:56:45 GMT -5
(Only a small portion will be posted, the read can read the whole page his ownself )
"However, some inscriptures, including the ahpocrypha, some prophets, and some writings show bears as one of the two mightiest beasts, ferocious and terrifying beasts, the other being the lion, with which it rountinely paralleled." "Unlike the lion's roar, the bear's growl is thought to be mournful."
"Bears are several times depicted as wild and fierce animals in the bible." "The bears sharing traits with humans in bible hasn't gone unnoticed. In persian kings of secong dynasty as told in David 7 is told as, 'They eat and drink like bears, they are fat like beard, they are hairy like bears, and are restless like bears."
www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.academia.edu/34385274/_Bear_I_Introduction_II_Hebrew_Bible_Old_Testament_III_New_Testament_IV_Judaism_V_Christianity_VI_Other_Religions_VII_Literature_VIII_Visual_Arts_IX_Music_in_EBR_3_2011_cols_626_50&ved=2ahUKEwjAyJTU-oD3AhXjnVwKHXzYBg0QFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3LB5-S3NB9ISWIrAbuM5Zi
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 6, 2022 21:36:55 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 6, 2022 21:57:15 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 6, 2022 23:07:03 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 9, 2022 2:55:53 GMT -5
Through out all this thread, we can clearly conlude that Syrian brown bears are very feared and respected in middle east. They appeared in:-
1. The Bible (New/Old testament)
Syrian bears are frequently mention in the Hebrew bible (Old testament) usually with the lion. They mentioned as fierce and dangerous animal par with the lion. Bear charge and lion's roar are considrered brutal while lion's jaws and bear's paws are considered strong. Due to their fearsome reputation, they are mentioned in David's speech, symbolized as persian empire and represent warrior. They also viewed as good creatures like hepling Prophet Elisha, and rarely bad animals like lions and bats. They are though not much mentioned in new testament but are also viewed as good caring mothers and friends of saints.
2. The Egyptians
The Egyptians feared and respected the bears. Due to the lack of bear habitat in Egypt, bears could not become prominent animals in egypt like snakes or jackals but still are visual in some of their art. Bears were viewed as exotic, very fierce and fearsome beasts. Due to their fearsome reputation, bears were viewed as dangerous kings of Syria and by taming a bear; the pharaoh showed his dominance over other northern areas. Apart from their ferociousness, bears were used as a royality and high-ranking official symbol and an exotic tribure from other kingdoms.
3. The Mesopotamians
Bears, just like in Egypt, were viewed as fierce and power beasts like lion. They were not native in mesopotamia, which prevented them to appear more prominently but still they were feared beasts as they were also ranked as royalty symbols. The mesoptamians showed their enemy kings as bears especially of Syro-Palestine. Bears also appear in mesoptamian myth like in the epic of Gilgamesh and in artifacts.
So overall, as show above, the syrian brown bears which we think as gentle and unimportant beasts, is considered like the lion as a ferocious and royal beast.
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Apr 9, 2022 8:15:50 GMT -5
Another good screen shot. Nothing is more dangerous than a mother bear (referring to the Syrian brown bear once more) robbed of her cubs except a fool in his folly according to the Bible.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 24, 2022 20:20:11 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on May 8, 2022 21:23:58 GMT -5
The two bears attacking the childern who mocked prophet Elisha.
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