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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 16, 2023 7:07:15 GMT -5
Large Mammals of the Rocky Mountains, by hunter and naturalist Jack Ballard.
The list of predators in North America capable of killing bison is very short. Under normal cirmcunstances only gray wolves and grizzly bears can successfully prey upon adult bison. Predation attempts by grizzly bears on adult animals are very rare. Black bears, mountain lions, and coyotes have the ability to kill bison in their first few months of life, but it would be highly abnormal for these predators to target an adult or even yearling bison.
"The massive size of adult bison (especially bulls) makes them highly immune to most predators."
books.google.com.ar/books?id=E0VKDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA196&dq=Black+bears
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Post by oldindigosilverback on Aug 16, 2023 8:13:50 GMT -5
/\ From that info above, the adult bison beats all animals 10/10 except the grizzly. Even then the bison will be the usual winner, winning more than 7/10 in a death match.
Only an exceptionally large male grizzly (in the region) can hope to stand up to a bison 4/10 at most but even that it is very dangerous.
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 16, 2023 11:27:00 GMT -5
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 16, 2023 11:35:58 GMT -5
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 17, 2023 16:34:56 GMT -5
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Post by oldindigosilverback on Aug 17, 2023 21:55:20 GMT -5
I am going to say the bison is powerful even by bovine standards.
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Post by brobear on Aug 18, 2023 1:34:04 GMT -5
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 18, 2023 6:22:17 GMT -5
Did Simus hunt the adult males? Absolutely not, Latifrons was too big and strong, that's just my opinion.
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Post by oldindigosilverback on Aug 18, 2023 9:19:48 GMT -5
Latifrons is about the same weight as a black rhino.
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 20, 2023 3:45:49 GMT -5
BISON CHARGES GRIZZLY BEAR IN YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK LAMAR VALLEY:
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 24, 2023 10:02:47 GMT -5
Comparison made by Theundertaker45, so very reliable:
Plains bison-Yellowstone grizzly:
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Post by brobear on Aug 24, 2023 12:53:58 GMT -5
Now you need one with the bison and his deadly enemy, the notorious cougar.
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Post by oldindigosilverback on Aug 24, 2023 19:46:36 GMT -5
Now you need one with the bison and his deadly enemy, the notorious cougar. I guess you are being sacarstic right ? A grizzly in that picture is too small to take on a bison. I doubt a cougar could. Even wolf packs are wary in attacking these bovines. Even most female black bears outweigh a male cougar but a size comparison against the cougar and bison will be interesting. A 110 pound female cougar can kill a bull elk eight times her weight so they are pretty powerful for their weight. Yet a 220 pound male cougar is unable to kill a 1760 pound animal due to the square cube law though it is more powerful than his female counterpart. Similar to a 1760 pound male polar bear being unable to kill a whale five times his weight although a 600 pound female polar bear can kill a 3000 pound beluga.
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Post by brobear on Aug 25, 2023 5:16:49 GMT -5
Comparison made by Theundertaker45, so very reliable:
Plains bison-Yellowstone grizzly:
Quote; I guess you are being sacarstic right ? Yes. There were once grizzlies living all across the great Plains of N. America who, according to pioneers, followed the bison herds. They were big grizzlies, similar in size to the Ussuri brown bears. Most often they fed on bison carcasses, often usurped from wolf packs. They also preyed upon cows and calves. But, there were occasionally a fight between a big boar grizzly and a bull bison, probably instigated by the bull. Such fights were not common, but they did happen. Some pioneers insist that the bison was usually the victor, while others claim victory for the bear. After reading numerous books on the topic of the historic grizzly, I am left with the belief that this fight was pretty-much a 50/50 contest.
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Post by oldindigosilverback on Aug 25, 2023 8:49:13 GMT -5
/\ I remember the historic Californian grizzly bear. They were around kodiak size weight or slightly smaller.
If they are 700 pounds on average, that is heavier than the average male Ussuri brown bear.
These that killed bisons must be exceptionally large males. I am surprise the bull would initiate the fight if the bear is suppose to be the predator.
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 25, 2023 9:12:51 GMT -5
If the bison senses a threat, he might charge/attack the bear. See reply #69 above.
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Post by brobear on Aug 25, 2023 13:32:19 GMT -5
If the bison senses a threat, he might charge/attack the bear. See reply #69 above. During mating season, bull bison will defend the cows and calves. A big male grizzly will not likely choose a big bull bison as prey.
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Post by brobear on Aug 25, 2023 13:33:35 GMT -5
About those outlaw grizzlies, the cattle and sheep killers of the American West. Notorious Grizzly Bears by W.P. Hubbard - 1960 - Pelage and Character - Weight. A safe estimate of the average weight of adult grizzlies in our western states would be about eight hundred and fifty pounds. This conclusion results from a careful check on grizzlies killed and weighed by numerous hunters, trappers, and old-time bear men. Nevertheless, there are exceptions. Several outlaw grizzlies investigated were known to have weighed over one thousand pounds. ( These outlaw grizzlies were hunted and killed before the Boone and Crockett Club established the idea of preserving bear skulls ). *When I had first read this several years ago, I considered this to be an exaggeration. But, that was then. W.P. Hubbard was the leading expert on bears at that time. Consider that, after the mega-beast extinction at the end of the Pleistocene, the grizzlies of the N. American Great Plains became foragers and bison hunters. Then, during the 1600s, 1700s, and early 1800s, the grizzly was also hunting range cattle ( the ancestors of the Texas Longhorn ), mustang horses, and wild burros. These grizzlies were feeding like royalty on lots of red meat. Beginning in the mid-1800s, the bison and feral cattle started disappearing, and were replaced by domesticated livestock. This is when the grizzly, following his nature, became, in the eyes of mankind, an outlaw. We all know the "rest of the story." W.P. Hubbard was probably 'right-on-the-money' when he stated that the grizzly of the prairie averaged roughly 850 pounds. In every book I have read concerning the historic grizzly ( those that touched on the subject ) stated that the grizzlies of the open prairie were bigger that those of the Rocky Mountains and rivaled only by those of the West Coast. It stands to reason, that a population of grizzlies with a very high percentage of red meat consumption would be very large bears. ________________________ Edit and add: the record inland grizzly skull is a found skull for those pioneer days.
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 28, 2023 6:56:35 GMT -5
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 29, 2023 5:51:54 GMT -5
Killing of a Bison, Bison bison, calf by a Wolf, Canis lupus, and four Coyotes, Canis latrans, in Yellowstone National Park
Abstract
We describe a fatal attack on a Bison calf (Bison bison) in Yellowstone National Park by a Wolf (Canis lupus) and four Coyotes (Canis latrans). A lone adult Wolf bit the neck of a lone, malnourished Bison calf while four Coyotes, simultaneously bit at the hindquarters. After the calf died, the Wolf was intolerant of Coyote proximity to the dead calf, and did not allow the Coyotes to feed or approach the carcass.
www.researchgate.net/publication/289090015_Killing_of_a_Bison_Bison_bison_calf_by_a_Wolf_Canis_lupus_and_four_Coyotes_Canis_latrans_in_Yellowstone_National_Park
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