|
Post by tyrannosaurs on Jul 7, 2021 7:33:22 GMT -5
Nice. I will try and find maybe another document or a study about this. We know the similarly sized American lion have hunted large bovids (1997), so I do think a 250 kg' "lion" can hunt a large bear in a suprise attack, but as we know, it doesn't always go well for the cats, as found in a study from 1973, where a tiger got its jaw stroked.
|
|
|
Post by oldindigosilverback on Jul 7, 2021 7:43:03 GMT -5
You mean between cave bears and lions? They go by evidence like bone marks, see reply #7. Personally I think the cave bear and cave lion interaction is similar to the Ussuri brown bear and Siberian tiger interaction.
|
|
|
Post by Gorilla king on Jul 7, 2021 7:44:55 GMT -5
Like it states on reply #7, lions entered the caves hoping to find cave bear cubs, but sometimes they would find hibernating male cave bears, and sometimes the lions would die. Why? Because the cave bear's neck is too large, its larger than its head, so a bite to the neck would not kill the bear instantly, so the bear woke up, a fight happened, and lions died.
|
|
|
Post by Gorilla king on Jul 7, 2021 7:49:19 GMT -5
You mean between cave bears and lions? They go by evidence like bone marks, see reply #7. Personally I think the cave bear and cave lion interaction is similar to the Ussuri brown bear and Siberian tiger interaction. Yeah, very similar, i think so.
|
|
|
Post by tyrannosaurs on Jul 7, 2021 8:24:20 GMT -5
Like it states on reply #7, lions entered the caves hoping to find cave bear cubs, but sometimes they would find hibernating male cave bears, and sometimes the lions would die. Why? Because the cave bear's neck is too large, its larger than its head, so a bite to the neck would not kill the bear instantly, so the bear woke up, a fight happened, and lions died. Indeed. Like in the fight presented in the documentary, that's probably what happens when the cave bear and the cave lion meet face to face. Maybe it does depend on the size the individual. Every predator would prefer a small and harmless meal while trying to avoid each other.
|
|
|
Post by tyrannosaurs on Jul 7, 2021 12:40:34 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by tyrannosaurs on Jul 7, 2021 12:48:39 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Gorilla king on Jul 7, 2021 14:01:18 GMT -5
That bear was hunted by a human. Humans entered caves for shelter and to bury their dead.
|
|
|
Post by tyrannosaurs on Jul 13, 2021 13:40:25 GMT -5
Limb bone proportions and body mass of the cave bear (Ursus spelaeus): The European cave bear evolved during the Middle Pleistocene and adapted to mountain environments. Earlier workers have described the cave bear as a robust bear. In this study the cave bears limb bone morphology is compared to the limb bone morphology of extant bears. Body mass estimates for the cave bear are made both based on different limb bone characters and based on dental and cranial characters. The shafts are wider in the cave bear limb bones than in the extant bear limb bones, and consequently the shaft widths give higher weight estimates to the cave bear than the other dimensions. The widened shafts are suggested to be a special adaptation (of presently unknown significance) rather than an indicator of an increased body mass. www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10292389409380456?journalCode=ghbi20
|
|
|
Post by tyrannosaurs on Jul 13, 2021 13:44:32 GMT -5
I believe this is belong to any bear thread here, but I will keep that study here just in case that it would be safe with me: The evolutionary history of bears is characterized by gene flow across species: Bears are iconic mammals with a complex evolutionary history. Natural bear hybrids and studies of few nuclear genes indicate that gene flow among bears may be more common than expected and not limited to polar and brown bears. Here we present a genome analysis of the bear family with representatives of all living species. Phylogenomic analyses of 869 mega base pairs divided into 18,621 genome fragments yielded a well-resolved coalescent species tree despite signals for extensive gene flow across species. However, genome analyses using different statistical methods show that gene flow is not limited to closely related species pairs. Strong ancestral gene flow between the Asiatic black bear and the ancestor to polar, brown and American black bear explains uncertainties in reconstructing the bear phylogeny. Gene flow across the bear clade may be mediated by intermediate species such as the geographically wide-spread brown bears leading to large amounts of phylogenetic conflict. Genome-scale analyses lead to a more complete understanding of complex evolutionary processes. Evidence for extensive inter-specific gene flow, found also in other animal species, necessitates shifting the attention from speciation processes achieving genome-wide reproductive isolation to the selective processes that maintain species divergence in the face of gene flow. www.nature.com/articles/srep46487Functional morphology of the cave bear (Ursus spelaeus) mandible: a 3D geometric morphometric analysis: The diet of the fossil cave bears (Ursus spelaeus group) has been debated extensively. Thought traditionally to be herbivorous, more recent studies have proposed more meat in the cave bear diet. To test this, the mandibular morphology of cave bears was analysed using 3D geometric morphometrics and compared to that of extant Ursidae. Landmarks for 3D digitisation of the mandible were chosen to reflect functional morphology relating to the temporalis and masseter muscles. Extant and extinct Pleistocene Ursidae were digitised with a MicroScribe G2. Generalised Procrustes superimposition was performed, and data were allometrically and phylogenetically corrected. Principal component analysis (PCA), two-block partial least squares analysis (2B-PLS), regression analysis and discriminant function analysis were performed. PCA and 2B-PLS differentiate between known dietary niches in extant Ursidae. The lineage of the cave bear runs parallel to that of the panda (Ailuropoda melanoleuca) in morphospace, implying the development of morphological adaptations for eating foliage. A regression of shape onto foliage content in the diet and a discriminant function analysis also indicate that the cave bear diet consisted primarily of foliage. link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13127-015-0238-2
|
|
|
Post by tyrannosaurs on Aug 3, 2021 6:27:31 GMT -5
Bite force of the extinct Pleistocene Cave bear Ursus spelaeus Rosenmüller from Europe: Abstract In this paper, I have made a theoretical calculation of the Cave bear's bite force (BF) following the “dry skull method” and I present for the first time BF data that can be of interest to elucidate the mechanisms underlying the dietary choice of the Cave bears. In the skulls studied, males show higher BF than females in absolute terms, but more similar with regard to their body mass, which partly compensates for the smaller size of the females. The whole sample studied shows lower BF in the upper carnassial than those of large cats, similar to the one calculated for the Giant panda and higher than that of Polar bear. www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S163106830900133X
|
|
|
Post by tyrannosaurs on Aug 3, 2021 10:07:12 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Gorilla king on Sept 16, 2021 19:05:03 GMT -5
This study was posted at reply #7, but this particular part was left out, its very important to go through it:
This is mortality of cave bears, hyenas, and lions because of battles and conflicts in the Zoolithen cave, as we can see, for the cave bears (blue line) (both Spelaeus and Ingressus), they are mostly cubs and seniles, but very few adults. For the cave lion, (red line) they are mostly adults.
Additionally, important for the understanding of the paleobiology of the steppe lions is the individual age statistics. If all bones and skeleton remains of the above-mentioned sites are included (MNI ¼26 Sauerland Karst, MNI ¼13 Zoolithen Cave, MNI ¼4UrsilorCave, MNI ¼2 Srbsko Chlum-Komin Cave), in total of 44 individuals, their percentages are important to support different theories. In a normal ‘dying curve’, as demonstrated here for the Zoolithen Cave cave bear population (Figure 17), and often published for cave bear populations at the den sites, most of the remains are from cubs, adolescents do not survive until their first hibernation (e.g. Perick Caves: Diedrich 2006b). Adult bears are less represented, and finally the peak rises again with high adult to senile animals. In the lion bone record, this curve is opposite. Cub remains are missing, and adolescent remains take 14%, whereas the highest mortality is in the best adult to high adult ages within the lion remains found in the hyena and cave bear den caves with 82%. Finally, the high adult to older lions are again less represented with 4%. This very ‘un-normal’ mortality curve (Figure 17) supports again, the non-use of the cave by lions as dens, but it supports the following theories about ‘battles between lions-hyenas’ in cave dens, and ‘conflicts during the cave bear hunt’ in cave bear dens – both resulting higher mortalities in adult lions and lionesses.
www.researchgate.net/publication/233230329_The_largest_European_lion_Panthera_leo_spelaea_Goldfuss_1810_population_from_the_Zoolithen_Cave_Germany_specialised_cave_bear_predators_of_Europe
|
|
|
Post by Montezuma on Jan 20, 2022 7:35:38 GMT -5
When cave bear and cave lion fight head to head. Lion dead before than a minute!
|
|
|
Post by Gorilla king on Jan 20, 2022 8:19:05 GMT -5
Reply #33, that was a mother bear also.
|
|
|
Post by Gorilla king on Apr 8, 2022 11:08:06 GMT -5
HYENA-LION-BEAR CONFLICT ZONE:
|
|
|
Post by oldindigosilverback on Apr 9, 2022 9:11:04 GMT -5
Reply 32. So there are more deaths among adult cave lions and hyenas in their prime compared to cave bears. These bears live well till old age. Long live the bears.
|
|
|
Post by Gorilla king on Mar 24, 2023 15:45:41 GMT -5
MORPHOMETRICAL FEATURES OF THE CAVE BEAR AND BROWN BEAR HEAD SKELETON: A COMPARATIVE STUDY
Abstract
The extinct cave bear (CB) is often depicted as a large heavy animal with a prominent, massive skull and severely shortened pelvic limbs. The size and robustness of the CB are comparable to those of the largest living ursids. Great similarities between CB and the brown bear (BB) species prompted our morphometric comparison. The goal of this study was to elucidate the potential differences in the morphometric skull characteristics of CB and BB species. Craniometric measurements were performed on the skulls of both bear species and were compared to identify craniometric features indicative of possible adaptations in both bear species. The results revealed a marked difference in skull size; however, the shape of the CB cranium is generally known to be similar to that of the BB. In CB, the total length of the skull was approximately 1.5 times longer, and the external bony nasal aperture was larger due to the relatively shorter nasal bones. The nose length and median palate length were relatively longer in the CB, and the infraorbital foramen was located more caudally and closer to the zygomatic process. The infraorbital channel of the CB was located over to the second superior molar roots whereas in BB the latter extends beyond the roots of the first to the second superior molar roots. A marked difference was the non-existence of the three most anterior premolars in the maxilla and mandible of the CB, Higher body of the mandible, which, together with the extensive biting surfaces of the cheeks teeth, indicates a predominantly plant-based diet of the CB. The braincase length was considerably shorter in the CB, resulting in a relatively small neurocranium volume. The pronounced frontal fossa in the CB skull continues caudally into a strongly developed frontal area, which gives the CB skull a prominent steep profile. In summary, comparative craniometry showed that CB had a smaller neurocranial volume and had herbivore-adapted jaws and teeth. These metric features of the head skeleton may be related to a lower adaptability to extreme climatic conditions to which they were exposed to during the last Pleistocene glacial period, which may have contributed to their extinction. Key words: head skeleton; skull; mandible; craniometrical features;
www.researchgate.net/publication/362215186_MORPHOMETRICAL_FEATURES_OF_THE_CAVE_BEAR_AND_BROWN_BEAR_HEAD_SKELETON_A_COMPARATIVE_STUDY
|
|
|
Post by oldindigosilverback on Mar 26, 2023 8:08:35 GMT -5
I have read the opening of the thread. The cave bear is probably the most powerful of the bears. Brobear even has a source that says it is the bear of all bears. Sadly its picky diet is what causes its extinction. If it’s diet was more like a brown bear, it would be alive till this day.
|
|
|
Post by arctozilla on May 14, 2023 3:30:23 GMT -5
The cave bear probably had dietary similar to Kodiaks and black bears who are mostly herbivores and occasional meat eaters.
Inviato dal mio 21061119DG utilizzando Tapatalk
|
|