Did Mexican Grizzlies existed in Mesoamerican civilizations?

[Montezuma]

This is a topic, that is very mysterious and confusing for a Mesoamerican historian or Bear expert. And so, it has also put me in a very ambiguous network. That, why we cannot see bears in mesoamerican cultures. As alreadily known, bears are highly reveted animals thoroughout their range across all USA, Canada, Alaska and in Andean countries. But the problem is that why not in Mexico? And over here, after a lot of studing and meditation, i have concluded the answer and will tell in detail.

[Montezuma]

As far as my knowledge is, there were no mesoamericans that actually even saw any bears seen as shown below, we do not see any clue of bear being mentioned by those civilized people. And here we start:-

1) Map shows Grizzlies didn't habitated Mesoamerican lands

First of all, we need to understand maps. The Map of North America is divided like this.





The Grizzly bear inhabits all the Plateaus, California, Northest, large parts of Great Plains, Southwest and Subarctic. South west contain Northern mexico (featuring deserts and mountains) and southwerstern USA. Here is Grizzly bear's range in southwest.




As we can see, the Grizzly bear is only located in Northern mexican areas; it didn't ventured far south in Central mexico (where civilizations emerged). It occupies the areas of Chihuahua of northern plains where the nomadic people like Navajos, Apaches or Puebloes lived, not the Aztec or Toltec civilizations.
Over here the map below shows the limits of mesoamerican cultures which despite of reaching far from Aztec empire, still couldn't touch the range of bears in Northern mexico.




As we can see, none of these advanced cultures went so far north to actually see a "Bear". So we can clearly see that "Bears were in limited to Northern Mexico" while "High Mesoamerican civilizations were limited to Central Mexico" obviously creating no situation for them to intreact with bears.

[Montezuma]

Please do not post anything in this thread now. Will be continued. Any posting is allowed after the thread's completion.

[Montezuma]

2) No nahutl (Aztec language) name or glyph for bear.

It is interesting also to note that their is no nahuatl word meaning "bear", "Brown bear" or "Black bear" which is just another proof. The word cuitlachtli originally means wolf or sometime like wolf e.g. coyote, fox or dog, not bear. We can find numerous glyphs of animals in nahuatl like here but no for bear.
Vultures, monkeys or lizards weren't a much revered animals in Aztecs but still they existed over there as their glyphs proof that.





 Glyph for ‘cuitlachtli’ from the second of von Humboldt’s Manuscripts 

Here is a supposed gylph said to be found by an archeologist depicting bear which he thought was used at the Xipe totec festival with other animals. Well, we can see that it does not look like a bear, since most notably, its ears arn't round but pointed. Its just a speculation. If bear glyph or name really existed, so it would be hard to find.

[Montezuma]

3) No bear mention in Aztec stone calender and bestiary

Here is another proof of bear's non-existence in Aztec areas - the representation in stone calender. Here every animal from highly revered (Eagle, dog, coyote, jaguar), medium revered (Rabbit, deer) and lesser revered (Vulture, lizard, monkey, alligator) animals are representatives of respective months of the calender but no Bear's representation.







As we can see, the animals which are rarely revered are present in Aztec calender, one of the most prominent thing in their religion, but still we cannot see bear. Now down here is another interesting proof,

"Bestiary is basically a catalog of animals. Aztecs developed their own bestiary of animals which they represented in statues. That including common animals in their fields and forests: eagles, dogs, coyotes, jaguars, turkeys and snakes etc; sometimes frogs, toads, fish and even insects!"

{GREAT EMPIRES OF THE PAST: THE EMPIRE OF THE AZTECS - Barbara E. Somervill}

Now, over here, note two things. In this paragraph, first it said that common animals found in forests and fields (as i highlightened) which shows some large or meduim sized animals; but no mention of bears in these common animals of Aztec forest. Secondly, we see that not only those revered animal were part of bestiary, but even frogs, fish and insect! But again no bear? Why? So again the answer: because bear weren't a common animal in Atec forests, thats why. I think its one of the best proof than others.

[Montezuma]

4) No mention of bears in Aztec's zoo




The Aztecs made the western hemisphere's first zoo in 1500s which had so variety and was so large that it was though to rival the Genghis Khan's zoo in China. Sources describe that there were a huge number and variety of birds, animals and even insects. Among animals, there were jaguars, pumas, coyotes, turkeys etc but again no metion of bears or wolves in there zoo. It is also note worthy that not only bears, but also wolves are absent in mesoamerican culture. Anyways, there is atleast one source from spainards telling that they saw "bears" and "bisons" in their zoo. Thats very mysterious and it does not look like a fact anyway. Ungulates like bulls, horses and donkeys etc were absent in pre-columbian mexico. There is no record of Aztecs venturing far north in Northern mexico or more where they can catch these two animals. The problem is that the Spaniards are strangers to mexico and defined many new things with their biased speculation: they called pumas as "lions", jaguars as "tigers" and Mexico as "India" (later they came to know that it wasn't India); and so they were surely mistakened since there is no solid proof to see bears and ,even, bison in Aztec zoos. Anyhow, we generally see no bears mentioned in Aztec zoo which simply shows another proof.

Before moving to the next topic. I also want to criticise this wrong speculation told as a bear from the source.

Page 5 of Earthly Things, Book 11, of the Florentine Codex addresses their possible presence in a footnote to the definition of the word Cuitlachtli.



The text in the Codex reads:-

"It is of woolly, tangled, snarled fur, of dark, bushy tail. When it is already old, its tail is tingled. Everywhere its fur is matted. It is droplet-eared; round, broad of face, as if man-faced; thick, short of muzzle. Much does it wheeze; a great hisser is it. When it hisses to terrify one, it is as if a rainbow comes from its mouth. Very clever is it - a great stalker, a crouching spy. It stalks one; preys, hisses at one."

Now lets analyse the text and picture.

1. The creature in the picture does not have ears like bear. Bears of mexico had short and round ears, not that long and neither of that shape.

2. The limbs arn't bear-like either since its look like a canine limbs. Bears have stockier limbs. Even the paws arn't bear-like since bears do not have claws of paw's back side.

3. The ambdominal and rear shape also does resemble the bear, and rather looks canid. We all know that bear's tail is very short while the guy in the picture have a considerably long tail.

So as obvious, that isn't a bear. Its just a speculation and nothing more. And its physical characteristics resemble with canids like wolf or more likely coyote like this Mexican wolf.

[Montezuma]

Or maybe, this resembles much like this mythical creature called 'Ahuizotl' (water beast) rather than a bear as shown here. The paws, limbs, hair, face, tail and ears resemble much.




5) Coyote warriors but no Wolf or Bear warriors

This heading may look a bit unrelated but its ver notable. Mesoamerican people revered various animals for their abilities just like ancient egyptians. Due to their power, eagles and jaguars were associated with their best warriors. But, surprisingly, coyotes were also seen as powerful and a brave symbol of warriors. Coyote warriors are numerous in Aztec, Tlaxcala and Toltec history which were praised just like eagles and jaguar warriors. Here is a coyote warrior.




And it is noteworthy that there were various skins of Coyote warriors, sometimes more than that of jaguar skins!





Now lets come to the real point: if a small and cowardly animal like coyote (as we all know) was admire for strength and courage, so why wasn't the much larger, pugnacious and stronger animal - the bear, a symbol of warrior? And here is a great question. We all know that since ancient times, Bear, all across their habitats are venerated as the best symbol of warrior but why would the Aztecs prefer a cowardly coyote over a bear for such a symbolism? There are even clues of parrot and alligator skins for warriors but still no bear or wolf warriors. There is even no clue of "bear or wolf hunting and bear-skins or wolf-skins". This shows that the reason that bears weren't hunted and neither their skin was used by warriors because there were no bears. If there were, so we surely had evidence of warriors using the strong bear's skin rather than weaker coyote's skin.

[Montezuma]

So as we can see, its clear; that, there are no Bears in Aztec culture due to the lack of bears in that region. Now lets just move to another but related topic.

American Southwest: Bear vs Jaguar in Native culture

Now, i understand that everybody would wonder that why i would talk about "southwest" instead of "mesoamerica" since our topic is related to the Aztecs? Well, since we have discovered that there were no bear existing in mesoamerica; now we have to see that if bears were present there, would they be revered as jaguar or lesser than the jaguar? Whom would have more influence to their mythology? To answer this question, we have to look in the North American Southwestern part, where both bear and jaguars co-existed.

But before moving, we must understand a little about native american tribes and culture location in southwest. When naming tribes, people who oftenly study native american history and culture (like me) would easily understand their location but for those who rarely read about them would have problem. So lets carry on.

(Remember:- Southwestern America includes Arizona, New Mexico, Southern Texas and parts of northern Mexico)





Observe the southwestern region. Navajos occupy a large area in Arizona, Hopi and Zuni (two important tribes) also occur in Arizona and Nex mexico while Apaches occupy a great area: all southern Texas, parts of nothern Mexico and new mexico.

[Montezuma]

Now before moving to their cultural importance. We better first show proof that jaguars were present in Hopi, Navajo, Apache, Pueblos, Zuni etc areas, since some people (fanboys) would be recultant to face these facts. Starting from this map.





As the map shows, the jaguar reachs as far as North Arizona (were navajo and hopi dwell). Here are more proofs:-

"Historically, the jaguar was also recorded in far eastern Texas, coastal Louisiana, and the northern parts of Arizona and New Mexico."

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_jaguar

"As recently as the early 1900s, jaguars were found as far north as the Grand Canyon and south all the way to Argentina."

www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/jaguar-near-arizona-border-wall-mexico

"Jaguars once roamed throughout much of Arizona and New Mexico, even as far north as the Grand Canyon."

www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/several-jaguars-roam-arizona-mexico-borderlands

And the NG proved that jaguars were as far as North Arizona since the Grand Canyons are in fact found in Arizona's north.




Some might say that the indians never saw a jaguar so that why they weren't highly revered. For those who say that, see this:-

"After brutally murdering a man, one rogue   Apache claimed, “I made jaguar medicine on him and grabbed him like a jaguar and killed him. I was like a jaguar” (Pavlik, 2003, p. 166)."

"The mythical rohona, an important animal in Pueblo religion, was probably a jaguar (Mahler, 2009; Pavlik, 2003)".

"The Mimbres, Hohokam, Casa Grande, and Anasazi all produced artwork which likely depicts jaguars (Brown & Lopez-Gonzalez, 2001)."

thejaguarandallies.com/2015/10/22/jaguars-in-the-united-states-part-1/#header-menu-responsive

So, the Apaches, Puebloes and Anasazis (navajos and hopi) knew about the jaguar. No excuss for that. Again Anasazi was a southwestern culture in Northern Arizonas.

[Montezuma]

Few traditions in Southwest feature Jaguar's reverence.


Now when it comes to find about Jaguar's cultural role in native americans, so its very rare. Rarely does not jaguar appears in southwestern legends, religion and ritual compared to the more often Grizzly bear. It shows that native americans showed more respect to the bear than the jaguar. For proof, see here:-

www.jstor.org/stable/1409436

thejaguarandallies.com/2015/10/22/jaguars-in-the-united-states-part-1/#header-menu-responsive

In the second link, not there are many speculations and everything isn't confirmed. Rohona animal of Pueblo was 'probabaly' a jaguar which isn't well known. Interestingly, the jaguar does not appear a well revered animal in Apache culture since both these animal and people shared a area.

amertribes.proboards.com/thread/2958/apache-legends-jaguar

Not only in Apaches, the jaguar is poorly mentioned in Navajo culture, art and legends.

"Jaguars, on the other hand, are extinct in Diné (Navajo) lands. They are known as “spotted lions” and  are mentioned briefly in a few traditional stories, seen in a few Anasazi petroglyphs, and make an appearance in a few sand paintings."



www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://journals.psu.edu/ik/article/download/59819/60291&ved=2ahUKEwjXlNuO8s_7AhWGTKQEHRScDj0QFnoECBQQAQ&authuser=2&usg=AOvVaw2TMKKbgkDs1zeOcyWyzqtW

Multiple traditions of Southwest feature Bears.

However, on the other hand, we have tons of information of the same people regarding bear with higher respect.

The Navajo had a great respect for the bear, not for the jaguar since bears played the largest role n their culture.

"Because of the bears power, intelligence, acute senses, and physical features which closely resemble that of a human, they have also played a major role in Navajo tribal legends and ceremonialism."

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0362331997900069

ehillerman.unm.edu/node/1420#sthash.fb9j2DRi.YTGS9DQj.dpbs

For the Navajos, bears were both physically and spiritually powerful and thus were an important symbol.



www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://journals.psu.edu/ik/article/download/59819/60291&ved=2ahUKEwjXlNuO8s_7AhWGTKQEHRScDj0QFnoECBQQAQ&authuser=2&usg=AOvVaw2TMKKbgkDs1zeOcyWyzqtW

In the southwest, the Grizzly bear was the powerful symbol of the middle word, not jaguar.

"In Southwestern views of the universe, each realm is symbolized by a powerful master spirit. The icon of the underworld is a feathered water serpent so powerful that moving its tail causes earthquakes and floods. The largest land animal is the bear, a symbol of power in the middle realm. In the sky, the eagle is the figure of power, and is linked to the Sun."

www.amnh.org/exhibitions/totems-to-turquoise/native-american-cosmology/many-worlds



www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwipyubV7s_7AhWgi_0HHQGpAhAQFnoECBcQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wildlife.state.nm.us%2Fdownload%2Fpublications%2Fwildlife%2FBlack-Bears-of-New-Mexico.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1dMDnVLll1Zn0-hQ5XcMQV

The jaguar does not play a great role in Apache culture, however, unlike the jaguar, the bear occpies a very respectable role in Apaches culture.

"The bear is an animal the Apache do not have contact with because bears are highly respected."

mescaleroapachetribe.com/our-culture/

books.google.com.pk/books?id=lMZXAAAAYAAJ&q=bears+revered+by+apaches&dq=bears+revered+by+apaches&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiT1_z-ic_7AhWlWaQEHbYtDF84FBDoAXoECAkQAw&authuser=1

books.google.com.pk/books?id=QLZmDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA49&dq=bears+revered+by+apaches&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiT1_z-ic_7AhWlWaQEHbYtDF84FBDoAXoECAYQAw&authuser=1#v=onepage&q=bears%20revered%20by%20apaches&f=false

books.google.com.pk/books?id=R-CgzM2iaWUC&pg=PA53&dq=bears+revered+by+apaches&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjd4O6Vic_7AhXEVqQEHTN7AAoQ6AF6BAgKEAM&authuser=1#v=onepage&q=bears%20revered%20by%20apaches&f=false


In Pueblos, the bear is one of the most revered animals and the one of most common art figure along with snakes, birds and coyotes. No jaguars as revered as bears. Bear claw figure is common on pueblo's pottery due to a legend.

www.adobegallery.com/blog/bear-paw-symbol

bookunitsteacher.com/indians/reports2/pueblo2.htm

americanindiancoc.org/native-american-symbology/

books.google.com.pk/books?id=iBSDddO-9PoC&pg=PA35&dq=bear+in+pueblo+culture&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjqldyHmM77AhXQTaQEHRAwCJAQ6AF6BAgLEAM&authuser=1#v=onepage&q=bear%20in%20pueblo%20culture&f=false

In Indeginous Hopi people, the Bear played a significant role in ceremonies, rituals and religion as the BEAR CLAN elder, Benjamin Nuamsa, chief tells:

"He plays a central role in traditions, ceremonies and native people sovegernity. I do not know any tribe does not hold the grizzly bear in high regard."

"The Hopi see the Grizzly bear as Hoonaw, a medicine man as well as a healer."

missoulian.com/news/local/american-indian-tribes-seek-greater-voice-in-grizzly-management/article_d232c12d-2ea1-5a83-a5b8-9793e7196217.html

Hopi bear claw's value.

www.nativeamericantreasures.com/hopi-symbolism-in-native-american-jewelry/

[brobear]

Did Mexican Grizzlies existed in Mesoamerican civilizations?
Very good research you're doing here Montezuma. Thumb up.

[Montezuma]

Nov 27, 2022 2:49:15 GMT -5 brobear said:

Did Mexican Grizzlies existed in Mesoamerican civilizations?
Very good research you're doing here Montezuma. Thumb up.

Thanks brobear. This is a very important topic that was in my mind for a long time. As you can clearly see, Jaguars were highly revered animals in mesoamerica but in southwest their reverence declines very sharply among the indeginous people. And here in southwest, the Bear was held in high respect than the jaguar and so it won the cultural importance competition against the jaguar. In mesoamerica, there were no bears; and, if there were, the bears would be likely to be much revered as in southwest america. By using southwestern animal history, i have shown that there are many possibilities that the bear can play a very major role in Mesoamerican cultures like Zapotec, Aztecs, Mayans, Mixtecs, Toltecs, Teotihuancan amd Olmecs etc, even surpassing the role of Jaguar if present in those areas; which i think, is, very well proofed.

I have edited Reply#9 with more information. Check that out.

[brobear]

Reply #9; yes, very interesting. In locations where both the bear and the jaguar were well known, the bear was chosen as the master of the land. The highest ranking animal of the land.

[Montezuma]

From Reply#9.......

So as we can clearly see that natives of the southwest revered bears more than jaguars. And if bears also co-existed with jaguars in Mesoamerica, so the scenario might be same, with high chances. The Grizzly bear featured in much of Hopi, Pueblo, Zuni, Navajo (Dùni) and Apache traditions, ceremonies, legends and rituals than the Jaguar. So i would'nt be hard to imagine bear as being a prominent animal in Aztec (Mexica), Toltec, Mixtec, Tarascan, Totonac, Olmec, Mayan, Tlaxcala and Zapotec etc mythologies and rituals.
I also made some very sensable reasons that why would bears be higgly revered in cultures, and here are the points:

1#. The Mexican civilizations, caves were very important symbols of way to underworld, birth place of things and home to some gods. Since bears spend well time in caves, so this would give the bear a good role in mythology.

2#. Afterlife and rebirth are important aspect of mexican religion and so animals, like snakes, linked to this concept were highly revered. The bear's hibernation (which symbolizes rebirth in north american tribes) would be a perfect symbol for this thought givinv it good reverence.

3#. Many animals were symbols of Aztec and other culture god and so with the bear's attributes, it would be too. The bear's pugnacity and power might symbolize Hitzilipochtli (God of war and sun), its wisdom and intelligence with Quetzalcoalt (God of paper, wisdom, creation and wind), its male sex and thus fertility with Tlatoc (god of rain amd fertility), its rule over animal symbolise Ometeotl (God of all gods), and its deadly attacks with Mictlantecuhuitli (God of death), etc. These are jusy my assumptions. My might have Bear-gods.

4#. The bear's living style wold also influence the Aztec cosmosic view. The climbing on tree by bear would make him a symbol of heavens, the roam on earth show him a symbol of middle realm and swimming in water, a symbol of underworld. Thus, it would give him a three layers of universe mediator's icon (like Spectacled bear in Andean mythology). A perfect symbol for a shaman or priest.

5#. As being the largest animal in mexico, the bear might be a symbol for kings, emperors, priests and nobles.

6#. Just like other animals, like coyotes, jaguars and eagles, the Bear would be a perfect symbol of elite warriors and we even might see a separate class of elite warriors called Bear knights.

7#. Due to its close resemblence with canines like Xolot dogs and coyotes, the Bear may occupy some other roles in mythologies and cosmologies.

8#. Bears have a close resemblence with humans. And thus, like many other cultures, Aztec might make many myths about bear's relations with humans as being ancestors or connectors of hmans and nature etc.

These are just some of my assumption which can be wrong or very suitable. Its just an idea that how can bears symbolize in native mexican culture they were present there. 

[Montezuma]

Not only this, i have got an interesting email from a mexican history expert confirming my claim. Here is his qualification:



www.mexicolore.co.uk/

I emailed him and answer wasn't that satifactory for me.





Clearly, he didn't know about bears.

[Montezuma]

Yet later i emailed him again pointing out his mistake and showing my evidence.




After realising his mistake and seeing my work, he really appreciated it saying that my sayings are true making my thread more confirmed!





"Forgive my ignorance about bears! And thank you for correcting me on this point. My first reaction is to think that yes, if bears had existed in ancient Mesoamerica they would have been at least equally as revered as jaguars, but this is only a guess.

I’ve had a quick look at the page you recommended and as far as I can see it’s basically correct; it looks like bears simply didn’t migrate down south as far as Mesoamerica. No Mesoamerican iconography exists, to my knowledge, that clearly resembles a bear.

Have you seen this short entry on our website –

www.mexicolore.co.uk/aztecs/ask-us/why-dont-bears-feature-more-in-aztec-mythology

It doesn’t give a definite conclusion as you can see.

So the subject is still surrounded in a bit of mystery!

All best,

Ian"

So, this thread not only gives strong proofs but also confimation from a historian making it authentic. Anybody, if have some thought about my thread; tell below.

Hope you all liked!

[Gorilla king]

Great thread bro. That history expert even saw this thread, awesome.

[oldindigosilverback]

Montezuma@the bear cultural expert 😎.

[brobear]

Just a thought. Brown bears are incredible versatile in adapting into new environments. However, I can't think of any population living within a tropical jungle or similar environment. I just have to wonder if such an environment acts as a barrier to Ursus arctos. Any thoughts?

[oldindigosilverback]

/\ I have no idea. Brown bears are among the most adaptable animals in the world. They have survived in both the coldest and hottest parts of the earth.

I guess they could also survive in the tropics.