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Post by Gorilla king on Dec 23, 2022 19:36:08 GMT -5
An 18 cm palm width in an Ussuri brown bear would definitely be from an adult male. For comparison sake, here are the measurements of the East Siberian brown bear (Ursus arctos collaris), who based on 10 weighed specimens of this chart averaged 509 lbs. The largest bear who had an 18 cm palm width weighed 600 kg and had a 264 cm body length, another bear had a palm width of 16.5 cm and weighed 270 kg, body length of 240 cm.
Reply #2:
beargorillarealm.proboards.com/post/1151/thread
 
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Dec 23, 2022 22:09:13 GMT -5
/\Not much difference in palm size despite the great difference in weights from the look of it. A male polar bear has a palm size almost twice the width as an Ussuri brown bear.
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Post by brobear on Dec 24, 2022 5:09:52 GMT -5
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Post by Gorilla king on Dec 24, 2022 6:34:09 GMT -5
Even though on video, a Bengal tiger failed to kill a small, skinny, female sloth bear more than half the tiger's weight.
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Post by Montezuma on Dec 24, 2022 16:51:49 GMT -5
Email from biologist David meanwell, Director of the Bear conservation society.
uk.linkedin.com/in/david-meanwell-b960355
By providing accessible, accurate and comprehensive sources of information on all things "bear" we work to help those who want to learn more about bears and to use their knowledge to speak out for bears and to help achieve our vision.
Since they have all information regarding bears of the world, i think, their opinion is reliable and here is the email.
"Thanks for contacting us. Tigers are known to catch and kill bears for food. Usually these are young female Himalayan bears. Bears will always fight back and can inflict injuries on tigers, and probably sometimes kill them, so tigers are often very wary of attacking bears."
If you haven't looked at this page it has quite a bit of information on the subject: a-z-animals.com/blog/bear-vs-tiger-who-would-win-in-a-fight/
Kind regards,
David
Bear Conservation
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Post by Gorilla king on Dec 24, 2022 17:03:08 GMT -5
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Post by oldcyansilverback on Dec 25, 2022 2:08:10 GMT -5
/\ I won’t be too quick to dismiss all kids side. For example, there are some that post accurate information though it is kept simple for kids. We are to take in the meat and spit out the bones. A side called Sea World talks about male polar bears reaching sexual maturity at 6 years old but are usually excluded from the mating competition till they are 8 to 10 years old as six year olds are not fully grown yet (forgot the exact wordings but I posted it somewhere in the polar bear section). Until a more detailed and scientific article shows up, we might have to accept this article  . |
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Jiren
Black bear
“Water can flow, or it can crash”.
Posts: 322
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Post by Jiren on Dec 25, 2022 9:42:03 GMT -5
Merry Christmas mates. Check it out: Brown bear kills froufrou the tiger. It’s stated to be a fine specimen. (I know this is already posted, but there’s more). More info. Tiger cubs can’t perform. Sarus posted this on shaggy forum. “According to Mr. Cormack, the manager of the Jungle, the animals had been performing together for three or four years. “ shaggygod.proboards.com/thread/798/historical-accounts-bears-big-interactions?page=3An adult male bengal tiger. And the bear wasn’t injured that badly, the article says “he was as lively as ever”. The tiger could have also been old, not sure. Definitely an adult. |
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Post by Gorilla king on Dec 25, 2022 10:29:19 GMT -5
We cant know exactly what they meant by "fine specinen", it most likely means "beautiful".
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Post by Montezuma on Dec 25, 2022 16:51:12 GMT -5
Yeah. Even the authors arn't specialists or profesionals. However i agree with their last statement about the conclusion of the fight. |
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Post by brobear on Dec 26, 2022 0:02:11 GMT -5
Yeah. Even the authors arn't specialists or profesionals. However i agree with their last statement about the conclusion of the fight. Those tiger weights are real when considering obese zoo specimens. |
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Post by Gorilla king on Dec 26, 2022 7:17:07 GMT -5
Yeah. Even the authors arn't specialists or profesionals. However i agree with their last statement about the conclusion of the fight. Those tiger weights are real when considering obese zoo specimens.
In 1988; a tiger named as Jaipur in captivity weighed 935 pounds. This is the highest recorded weight for a tiger till now. Photo courtesy of Guinness World Records
www.ligerworld.com/biggest-tiger-ever-recorded.html
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Post by Montezuma on Dec 26, 2022 16:33:16 GMT -5
Another email from David meanwell. My question:- Hello dear David,
Thanks for your recent reply. I agree with that. Sorry, if my again email bothers you but i just want to ask a simple and clear question. I contacted many experts about this question before, but as usual, they either didn't reply or do not give a clear statement. Since you are a Bear expert and have been well informed about bear species of the world. Here is my question,
"If a 620 pound Brown Bear fights to death with a 400 pound Siberian tiger, so would win?"
I know that bears are occasionally killed and eaten by tigers (as wolves do) but as a rule, those bears are smaller than the tiger almost 100 pounds or more. But, in gerenal, is a big brown bear dominant over tigers like they are on large wolf packs? For me your opinion carry a lot of importance since you are professional. I hope you reply soon.
Your sincerely,
His reply,
Hi,
If the tiger ambushed the bear, which of course is how they hunt, my money would be on a victory for the tiger. I suspect that if the bear started to get the upper hand, so to speak, the tiger would escape and live to fight another day.
Regards, David
According to him, this is i understand:
A tiger always attacks a bear from ambush where the tiger mostly wins. But if the fight becomes face-off so the bear would start to get an upperhand which would make the tiger to run (which excatly that we all always say). What do you guys think that he means? Does he mean that bears dominate tigers in fights and tiger only kill in ambush?
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Post by Gorilla king on Dec 26, 2022 16:56:31 GMT -5
I think he is just talking about what happens in general with smaller brown bears, which is the tiger killing by ambush, and if the ambush fails and the bear isn't killed and fighting back even being injured by that initial ambush attack, that the tiger runs away, which is exactly what happens. It doesn't really sound like he is actually talking about a 620 lb brown bear vs a 400 lb tiger (like you asked him), because adult male Amur tigers strictly avoid adult male brown bears, and even if a 620 lb Ussuri brown bear is ambushed, the bear would not be killed so quickly because of its insanely thick neck, the tiger would most likely run away, if he does still stay and fight, my opinion is that he has a 50% chance to kill the bear by ambush. Even adult female brown bears that have been ambushed and injured, have been able to dislodge from the attack and have given adult male tigers trouble even while being previously injured, so just imagine. So i believe he is just talking about what happens in general.
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Post by Montezuma on Dec 26, 2022 17:03:58 GMT -5
Yeah. I don't either think that he talking about 620 pound bear and 420 pound tiger. However, as i understand, he means that in general, a tiger kills bear in ambush while is chased off in a fight which means the bear dominates tiger in fights generally. So i think he indirectly is favouring a bear in a fight, as he favours a tiger in ambush?
Any thought? If he really favours the bear in a fight, so should we post this email in opinion thread?
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Post by Gorilla king on Dec 26, 2022 17:10:41 GMT -5
Yeah. I don't either think that he talking about 620 pound bear and 420 pound tiger. However, as i understand, he means that in general, a tiger kills bear in ambush while is chased off in a fight which means the bear dominates tiger in fights generally. So i think he indirectly is favouring a bear in a fight, as he favours a tiger in ambush? Any thought? If he really favours the bear in a fight, so should we post this email in opinion thread? |
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Post by Montezuma on Dec 26, 2022 17:14:09 GMT -5
Yeah. I don't either think that he talking about 620 pound bear and 420 pound tiger. However, as i understand, he means that in general, a tiger kills bear in ambush while is chased off in a fight which means the bear dominates tiger in fights generally. So i think he indirectly is favouring a bear in a fight, as he favours a tiger in ambush? Any thought? If he really favours the bear in a fight, so should we post this email in opinion thread? Lets post it in the Opinion thread! |
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Post by Gorilla king on Dec 26, 2022 17:31:00 GMT -5
Montezuma You told him this:
I think he did like most other experts, he still didn't give you a clear answer as to who he thinks would win in a face to face fight between a 620 lb brown bear and a 400 lb tiger, his answer was about how the tiger hunts, its about hunting, he didn't need to bring up the ambush thing, you asked him about a fight to death. The thing is most experts or biologists dont care about a hypothetical fight, they just care about interactions, like hunting.
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Post by Montezuma on Dec 26, 2022 17:42:21 GMT -5
Montezuma You told him this:
I think he did like most other experts, he still didn't give you a clear answer as to who he thinks would win in a face to face fight between a 620 lb brown bear and a 400 lb tiger, his answer was about how the tiger hunts, its about hunting, he didn't need to bring up the ambush thing, you asked him about a fight to death. The thing is most experts or biologists dont care about a hypothetical fight, they just care about interactions, like hunting. |
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Jiren
Black bear
“Water can flow, or it can crash”.
Posts: 322
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Post by Jiren on Dec 26, 2022 17:57:53 GMT -5
Nice @montezuma. We have many authorities favoring the bear unlike what ML says. (Sysoev, Grigory, Krechmar, and (Kulikov technically).
There’s a lot more, but those are books and don’t state who says it.
I think Baikov favors the bear as well.
We also have bears winning in some fight statistics (not all). (Sysoev, Kostogold, Gorokhov, Rakov). If you consider 2-1 a statistic. I’ll write another answer for this another time.
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