|
|
Post by oldcyansilverback on May 3, 2022 6:02:15 GMT -5
My analysis: it is talking about the brown bear in general and the potential maximum weights a male Ussuri brown bear can reach. An average male brown bear at 300kgs can offer the tiger a decent resistance and the tiger is far from winning fights with it often. However, it has less chance against a large tiger than a tigress and small tiger. Reason: He would prefer to fight someone he has 9/10 chance to beat compared to one with 6-7/10 chance to win.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gorilla king on May 3, 2022 6:09:29 GMT -5
You know what, you might be right, i didn't even think about that. Maybe that is what he means.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldcyansilverback on May 3, 2022 6:13:23 GMT -5
You know what, you might be right, i didn't even think about that. Maybe that is what he means. I think we both agreed that no wild animal has the aggression of a gladiator dog either  . Wild animals generally pick on the weaker of their potential prey. |
|
|
|
Post by Gorilla king on May 3, 2022 16:12:11 GMT -5
Dont know who made this page, but its a good compilation of bear/tiger relations in the RFE, mostly from chapter 19:
The Ussuri brown bear in the taiga forest of the Far East, the Siberian tiger, the king of beasts, is the soul of the dead under its claws
inf.news/en/animal/e2b5e1e47b47e34e9df3f8152852c5d8.html
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on May 3, 2022 16:23:48 GMT -5
Reply #298: This person ( biologist or not ) is simply verbalizing what he believes to be true. He words it as if he has been eye-witness to dozens of bear and tiger fights at tiger kill-sites. ( IMO ), which I consider as being highly probable, when a large male brown bear walks towards the tiger and his kill, the tiger simply walks away. Do I have evidence of this? YES. ( 1 ) it is extremely rare for a tiger to fight even a female sloth bear, less than half the tiger's weight, face-to-face. ( 2 ) a cougar will not defend his kill from a black bear. ( 3 ) a leopard will not defend his kill from a sloth bear. ( 4 ) a big male tiger refuses even to ambush an adult male brown bear. ( 5 ) a tiger will not even attack an unarmed man if he believes the man can see him. *So, why should anyone believe that a tiger will be willing to fight against a full-grown male brown bear, face-to-face, in defense of a carcass? Perhaps under extreme circumstance, such as fight or starve after a bunch of unsuccessful hunts. But otherwise, NO.  |
|
|
|
Post by Montezuma on May 4, 2022 4:15:48 GMT -5
<button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> What do you guys think about this account? I might give my take later on. I want the link please. My response is simply like that of brobear and also this:-  |
|
|
|
Post by Montezuma on May 4, 2022 4:16:59 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by oldcyansilverback on May 4, 2022 7:16:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Gorilla king on May 5, 2022 6:52:22 GMT -5
MontezumaNice buddy, you are dominating Quora, great job.
|
|
|
|
Post by Montezuma on May 7, 2022 1:37:00 GMT -5
View AttachmentWhat do you guys think about this account? I might give my take later on. Its good you find and show us these types of account too. I like to debunk them. We had scrutinized such accounts in the domain but it would be good that we refresh those scrutiny here too. |
|
|
|
Post by Montezuma on May 7, 2022 1:53:25 GMT -5
These are my solid 15 points from which i can easily encounter every tigerfan's claim. 1#. Brown bears are generally zero percent in tiger's diet. (The Siberian Tiger Project: Diet table)2#. If preyed, thosebears are always young and subadults, and very rarely female adults. (Ivan Seryodkin, N.A. Baikov)3#. Tigers generally avoid brown bears and hestiate to attack them. (Alexander Batalov, N.A. Baikov)
4#. Male brown bears are not afraid of tigers. (Grigory Linkov)5#. Brown bears can displace tigers from their kills including adult males and invariably dominate such disputes. (Miquelle, Tkachenko)6#. A male brown bear can generally defeat a male male tiger in a fight. (Mikhail Krechmar)
7#. A tiger always chooses a bear about 100 pound smaller than himself. (BART SCHLEYER)
8#. If a tiger attacks by ambush, the tiger wins but if the ambush fails so the bear would surely conquer the tiger. (MIKHAILOVICH SHIROKOGOROV)
9#. Brown bear predation on tigers is very but becomes intense in harsh winters. (Gorokhov)
10#. No case of adult male brown bear killed by tiger is known to biologists. (Miquelle, Amurtiger centre)
11#. Female brown bear is more stronger than tigeress. (Alex Kulikov)
12#. Apart from human, brown bears have no natural enemies. (N.A. Baikov)
13#. Brown bears reap great benefit from tiger's winter kills. (Dale Miquelle)
14#. Brown bears are stronger and more enduring than the tigers. (Sysoev)
15#. Brown bears are the real master of the taiga as they are not afraid if tigers and can beat them.(Grigory linkov, Sysoev)
16#. Brown bear kleptoparasitism can effect tiger's prey selection meaning brown bears can effect tiger's survival rate. (Krofel, John Goldrich)
Note:- These are only some claims of biologists. I have minus other scientific literature and other experts or accounts. I just want to show that these points can easily thrwat every tiger fan claim because these are mire reasonable and logical. |
|
|
|
Post by Montezuma on May 7, 2022 2:33:52 GMT -5
@the Flow State
Bro since ypu are good at finding researches i wpuld like you to find out the links of these:-
●Russian biologist Kucherenko from The Siberian Tiger Project
“The male Amur tiger will predate Asiatic black bears and subadult and female brown bears. According to telemetry data on tigers from 1992–2003, half the attacks on brown bears occur during hibernation but no males were despite their vulberable state of hibernation.”
● Former Russian biologist S.P. Kucherenko and early Naturalist N.A. Baikov
“Tigers will only target bears of similar or smaller size which translates to female and subadult bears, not the larger male brown bear.”
“There has been no record of male brown bears killed by tigers but there are records of male amur tigers killed by brown bears and some of them were eaten.”
● Russian biologist I.V. Seryodkin, N.A. Baikov and Park Manager G.F. Gorokhov
“Adult Ussuri female brown bears are not easy prey for dominant male Amur tiger either-some of the larger female brown bears have inflicted severe injury to the victorious but bloodied tiger.”
“Adult male Far Eastern brown bears often use and also usurp Amur tiger carrion which sometimes include multiple tigers in the form of a mother tiger and her 2–3 year old adult size offspring.”
These were posted in the Wildanimalwarfare forum but without link, can gou find them?
|
|
|
|
Post by Montezuma on May 7, 2022 2:35:40 GMT -5
And u really love this one account too but its without source. Can you try to find it?  |
|
|
|
Post by Gorilla king on May 7, 2022 5:14:21 GMT -5
Montezuma If he can find the actual source for those quotes by Kucherenko, then it will be the same as finding gold. That has been searched for years and the source has never been found. Same for that account at reply #312.
|
|
|
|
Post by Montezuma on May 7, 2022 7:52:30 GMT -5
Montezuma If he can find the actual source for those quotes by Kucherenko, then it will be the same as finding gold. That has been searched for years and the source has never been found. Same for that account at reply #312. I tried too, but failed. Maybe someone else try to find those. |
|
|
|
Post by Montezuma on May 9, 2022 22:54:28 GMT -5
And u really love this one account too but its without source. Can you try to find it?
|
|
|
|
Post by oldcyansilverback on May 10, 2022 3:38:15 GMT -5
 I have been thinking about this account for a while. I think it is from Clyde Beatty. Most male brown bears and polar bears are larger and stronger than tigers and lion. At parity, female Ussuri brown bears overlap in weight with male Amur tigers  . |
|
|
|
Post by brobear on May 10, 2022 4:10:49 GMT -5
Lions have also been killed by the hoofs of zebra and other large ungulates. Also note, a horse, including zebra and donkeys, are deadly accurate with their hoofs.
This animal trainer, Roman Proske, is giving an opinion on a matter he never witnessed. If a tiger could kill an adult male brown bear is a face-to-face confrontation, then the adult male brown bear would be the bear most sought after in Russia by Amur tigers. After all, he would provide the most meat.
Clyde Beatty himself used to say the same thing, until he witnessed a few bear vs big cat fights; then he changed his tune. Also remember, the bear always defeated the lion in the Roman arena.
It is the big cat who relies on the "sneak attack", not the bear. Also, even when ambushed by the big cat, my nickel is on the bear.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldcyansilverback on May 10, 2022 6:46:04 GMT -5
/\ Predators get killed by prey every now and then so it is not a surprise.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gorilla king on May 10, 2022 6:47:00 GMT -5
Reply #316:
I know the idiot who highlighted that, what he really means is morphological advantages, not ambush advantage.
That is because that bear killing that tigress at Clyde Beatty is the ONLY...and i mean the ONLY documented case of a bear ambushing a tiger in history. Now that tigress knows how it feels, let the bear do it for once, LMFAO. but he highlights it like it happens regularly while it is the ONLY documented case in history. A bear ambushing a cat with all its senses is ridiculous.
Ok great, it can happen. This is worse here:
www.tapatalk.com/groups/wildanimalwarfare/tiger-killed-by-other-animals-t29.html
|
|
. Wild animals generally pick on the weaker of their potential prey.
.