Jiren
Black bear
“Water can flow, or it can crash”.
Posts: 322
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Post by Jiren on Apr 11, 2022 22:05:36 GMT -5
Slick is back! So, Is Misha the same tiger as Dale? Yes indeed my friend. The weights and dates for the two are the same. Here is Misha’s account... ibb.co/M6BQ68FSo he was 370lbs (170KG) but used to be 445lbs (202KG) Now here’s an interesting chart in Amur tiger weights. Dima is the tiger 20 (hence why he is called T20.) ibb.co/qyXZQhnThe weights are 202KG, 170KG, and 205KG. 205KG was on February 26; they’re literally consistent within each other. They were captured the same year too! (1995.) Also, ML also knows this too, he said it on Wildfact. So what about this? I found something quite interesting. @king Kodiak posted this somewhere (forgot.) He posted this... “And tiger biologist Dale Miquelle told us of a Siberian tiger that seemed to specialize on killing subadult brown bears in the Russian Far East .” This source is from 2002. ibb.co/qpLdC84Yes, this is referring to the tiger Misha, because this quote is in 2002, after Misha killed the bears in 1995-1998. Misha belonged to TAC/Dale Miquelle, there was no other Siberian Tiger that was killing bears like Misha at the time or even notorious for doing so. So Dale specialized in Killing subadult brown bears. So most of diet consisted of subadult brown bears. Also, he was named as Dale by American biologists, but known as Misha by the Russians. He never killed a brown bear heavier than himself. He killed adult female brown bears (both in which were smaller.) The fact that Dale was renowned as "the bear killer", being the only Siberian tiger ever known to have acquired a taste for bear flesh and making the bear his primary prey animal, and in doing so having only killed two adult brown bears in his "bear killing career", leads me to strongly believe that the killing of adult female brown bears is an extremely rare event. So yes, Dale specialized in killing subadult brown bears, most of his diet was bears, he had an acquired taste. |
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Post by Gorilla king on Apr 12, 2022 5:15:53 GMT -5
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Jiren
Black bear
“Water can flow, or it can crash”.
Posts: 322
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Post by Jiren on Apr 14, 2022 14:01:16 GMT -5
Interesting site about bears in the diet of tigers. “37%”. However. According to Tkachenko: Тигр. Основными объектами питания тигра являются кабан (ч. в. 24,3%) и изюбр (38,6%), гораздо реже - косуля (1,4%). В экскрементах тигра высока встречаемость остатков медведей - 35,7%. Чаще медведи регистрировались в питании тигра-самца (37,0%). Из двух видов медведей, обитающих в заповеднике, тигры охотнее добывают гималайских. Tiger. The basic objects of a feed of a tiger are a wild boar (ч. Century of 24,3 %) and изюбр (38,6 %), much less often - косуля (1,4 %). In excrement of a tiger occurrence of the rests of bears - 35,7 % is high. More often bears were registered in a feed of a male tigers (37,0 %). From two kinds of the bears living in reserve, tigers more frequently predation on Himalayan black bear From the study ‘Экология хищных млекопитающих Большехехцирского государственного природного заповедника’ Anyway, “A little attention will reveal that the statistics of the Больше-Хехцирский area in the stool analysis method are the shortest time (only 3 years) of all the regions and the least sample content (only n=27) , and there is no corresponding prey in this area Analytical research data.” “It can be seen that the proportion of bears in areas with large sample content is not high. In statistics, the size of the sample size is directly related to the accuracy of the inference estimation, that is, in the case of a given population, the larger the sample size, the smaller the representative error of the statistical estimate. On the contrary, the larger the sample size. The smaller the estimation error, the greater the error.” inf.news/en/nature/c8518adbf3b3ba40065c95c16f31c426.htmlI would like to hear you guys opinions. |
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Post by Gorilla king on Apr 14, 2022 19:39:55 GMT -5
Jiren Did you write that article in that link? We already went thru that predation chart a short time ago, i dont take the method "According to tiger's excrement" as reliable for predation for obvious reasons.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 14, 2022 20:44:42 GMT -5
@ Venom Lord
I would say good find bro as you usually search great finds.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 14, 2022 20:45:54 GMT -5
This is my final overview on tigers and brown bears in the russian far east.
Tiger predation over Brown Bear
Tigers, mostly big males, prey on both black bears abd brown bears but it is a very rare thing. When chossing a bear, the tiger confirms that the bear weighs atleast 100 pound or more lesser than him. Tigers have specialized in killing subadult brown bears (Dale Miquelle). However, tigers killing bears in not a new phenomena as in nature, every meat eater will attack anyother predator weak than him. A hyena has been known to attack lonely lion or chettah subadults, a dhole pack has been known to kill tigers, a wolf pack has been know to kill a black bear in hibernation. Subadult bears are always vulnerable not only to tigers and bears, but also to the wolves.
Tigers are not full-time predators of the bears. A scientific chart clearly shows that in most decades brown bears were zero percent in their diet. The most way of knowing bear in tiger is through feaces analysis. Seeing bear material in tiger's feaces in not always going to mean that the tiger killed and ate the bear, but a tiger will also scavenge on an alreadily dead bear. For example, The Siberian Tiger Project mentions a case where a male brown bear killed an other brown bear, and later a tiger came scavenged on that carcass. It clearly showed that the bear was not killed by the tiger, but when the bear material would be seen in tiger feaces, it would be assumed that the bear had killed and eaten a bear. A brown bear killed by another bear, died on injury, died on hunters, died of starvation or by anyother reason can be scavenged by any tiger meaning that if a tiger ears the bear, it does not always mean the tiger has killed the bear.
So tigers are not true natural predators of bears since the bears don't have to change their lifestyle or have to avoid tigers as its a very rare event. Russian biologist, Baikov has in his book of bears in russian far east that "Bears have no natural predators, apart from man and another bear (N.A.Baikov)." It gives us a clear sense that assuming the tiger as a natural predator or enemy of bear is totally wrong as a bear's real enemy or predator, apart from man, is another larger bear. Baikov further says that "Even the tiger hesitates to attack the brown bear knowing its enormous size and fierceness", meaning that bears are generally not on tiger's menu and the tiger do not eaay them always an easy prey. Apart from rarely hunted subadults, adult females are even more rarely hunted by male tigers as the tiger is aware of the she-bear's superior strength and ferocity. To accompany this, the tiger uses his ambush and larger size. He leaps and kills the she-bear in pure stealth even the femake bear notices her. A tiger will, however, would never try yo think of the same she-bear in a frontal attack. So overall, tigers don't prey on bears frequently.
Brown Bear predation over tiger
Brown bears killing or eating tigers is even more rare than tigers killing or enduring bears. There are two reasons for that:- (1) Brown bears are not interested in tiger's meat. As bears are not hunters and generally try to find out alreadily killed prey so they are rather interested in the tiger's kill meat instead of tiger's meat. (2) Since sudadults are unexperienced and not confident and female bear mostly gave cubs to take care of, so its always the adult male brown bear, confident, large, powerful and feirce enough, to join fights with large carnivores, huge wolf packs and fearsome herbivores. When such type of bear approaches near a tiger, the tiger would flee instantly fearing the bear. Whenever, the tiger sees the bear coming so it flees, leaving no chance of fights or killing. Thats why tigers killed or eaten by bears is a very rare thing to find. In those cases, in which tiger killed more bears than the bear killed the tiger, the bears were subadults and were females and were not all devoured.
Male Brown Bear dominance over Tigers
In wild, due to size and strength, a male black bear dominates any type of cougar, and a male sloth bear would dominate any type of leopard; so a male brown bear similarly would dominate any type of tiger. Just as in other places if the world where brown bears live, the ussuri brown bear is also the king of its place too. So strong, large, fierce and durable that tigers avoid him (Batalov). Even an adult male tiger would avoid the adult male bear due to the bear's fearsome natural features. The male bear don't avoid anyother animal, from tiger to wild boar, because the bear does not fear but is featured.
A tiger would never even try to think to prey on an adult bruin showing the bear's dominance over him. These bears are never on their menu (Pikunov, Syseov). Thats is why the 3-4 cases of tiger killing adult male brown bear, by ambush, are not confirmed as the scientific society does not accept those assumption only (Dale Miquelle). An adult male brown bear, knowing he is the boss of the woods, will take on any kill, if it belongs to an adult male tiger. In kill dispute, male brown bears invariably dominate tigers including adult males (Miquelle and Tkachenko). A brown bear is willing to attack a carcass from an adult male tiger (Just as a hunter witnessed) as smaller bear usurp kills from smaller felines. A tiger generally like leopards and cougars would surrender before a fight, and easily gives its prey to the brown bear, showing that the tiger's presence benefits the adult male brown bears. Since tigers are afraid of brown bears, they lose 35% of their precious kills to bears (Seryodkin).
Mostly tiger of any size, age or gender avoid the adult male brown bear and would flee when seeing him face-to-face. If an adult male tiger and an adult male brown bear collide in a fight, the winner would always be the bear (John Valliant, Krechmar). That is why we favour the bear 19 out 20 times over the tiger. 😎. Since we know the brown bear who dominates everything in his domain with his fighting nature, fierceness, durability, enduraing power, size and strength.
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Jiren
Black bear
“Water can flow, or it can crash”.
Posts: 322
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Post by Jiren on Apr 14, 2022 20:48:22 GMT -5
Jiren Did you write that article in that link? We already went thru that predation chart a short time ago, i dont take the method "According to tiger's excrement" as reliable for predation for obvious reasons. Nope. |
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Post by Gorilla king on Apr 16, 2022 10:03:51 GMT -5
Jiren
In the link you posted at reply #282 is the Diet Composition of Brown Bear and Asiatic Black Bear in the Middle Sikhote-Alin (Russian Far East): Comparative Study:
izvestiabio.isu.ru/en/article?id=3#:~:text=The%20basis%20of%20the%20diet
Its very interesting that tigers accounted for 1.7% of the brown bear's spring diet from 1999 to 2014. But since the last 2 tigresses killed by brown bears were in the year 2000, this means that most of that 1.7% is scavenging of course:
Point is, The Siberian tiger is also on the brown bear's menu according to official statistics.
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Post by brobear on Apr 17, 2022 12:31:49 GMT -5
Quote from Venom Lord about ( Dale ( M20 ) Misha ):So he was 370lbs (170KG) but used to be 445lbs (202KG)
*Interesting. What was his weight when he killed those two brown she-bears?
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 17, 2022 21:15:07 GMT -5
Tiger fanatics helpless and defeated once again. Sorry bro i didn't appreciated this find that time. But niw as i have discovered it, so i would say that its totally awesome! Very very nice find bro! I am happy that its not from only a biologist, but its from a whole organisation, "The Amutiger centre". And ever aspect of tiger is known to them even historical events, abd even they don't know any adult male brown bear killed by tiger. Wow! They just totally debunck all those unconfirmed accounts that those fags want to prove. I mean, they will critisize biologists that they don't know about that case and something, but they cannot criticize (if in right mind) a whole organisation who know every event and aspect of the tiger. It disappointed me that this account is not considered so well. Anyways, i will take some screenshots of this and post them here with the video link.  . Since some videos also grt deleted on youtube so its good save screenshots of them. Anyway bro, one of the best finds ever! As you occasionally do. |
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 17, 2022 21:27:55 GMT -5
Proof from the "Amur tiger centre" on instagram, that there is no such case of adult male brown bear being killed by tiger, and brown bears are not on tiger's regular menu.
The Amu tiger centre instagram profile.
The messages from the organisation and user.
Translation:-
User:-"Is an adult male brown bear stronger than an adult male tiger? Tigers prey on them. So i am wondering....?"
Amurtigercentre:-"Hello! It depends that on which male bear and on which male tiger. But a tiger has once been seen eating an adult bear they prefer to disperse as no one wants injuries."
User:-"Well, do tiger generally prey on adult male brown bears? And do they kill bears on regular basis?"
Amurtigercentre:-"No, we are not aware of such cases. On regular basis- definetly not, on himalyan-yes."
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Post by Gorilla king on Apr 17, 2022 22:35:09 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 18, 2022 3:11:53 GMT -5
Yeah. I have seen that bro. But by posting the screenshot in the forum, it will be saved permanently. On youtube, as you know, sonetimes videos get lost, deleted or get unavaiable as a cave bear disappered from UT that i loved. By posting photos in the forum, the account is now out of danger of losing and due to this account's significance, i wanted to post it in this better and easier way. |
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Post by Gorilla king on Apr 18, 2022 6:30:40 GMT -5
Yeah. I have seen that bro. But by posting the screenshot in the forum, it will be saved permanently. On youtube, as you know, sonetimes videos get lost, deleted or get unavaiable as a cave bear disappered from UT that i loved. By posting photos in the forum, the account is now out of danger of losing and due to this account's significance, i wanted to post it in this better and easier way. |
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Jiren
Black bear
“Water can flow, or it can crash”.
Posts: 322
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Post by Jiren on Apr 18, 2022 7:41:53 GMT -5
Quote from Venom Lord about ( Dale ( M20 ) Misha ):So he was 370lbs (170KG) but used to be 445lbs (202KG) *Interesting. What was his weight when he killed those two brown she-bears? Good question, however, I’m unsure. |
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 18, 2022 20:35:14 GMT -5
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Post by Gorilla king on Apr 19, 2022 6:53:11 GMT -5
For what exactly, what post #?
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Post by brobear on Apr 19, 2022 7:31:19 GMT -5
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Post by oldcyansilverback on May 3, 2022 4:14:28 GMT -5
 What do you guys think about this account? I might give my take later on. |
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Post by Gorilla king on May 3, 2022 6:02:12 GMT -5
Reply #298:
Well, that article is kind of contradictory, first it says tigers are far from winning fights very often against the largest brown bears of 400, 500, 600 kg. Then it goes on to say that fights are largely determined by the size and weight of the animals. Then it goes on to say a very large bear (brown?) Has less chances against a large adult tiger. Go figure.
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. Since some videos also grt deleted on youtube so its good save screenshots of them. Anyway bro, one of the best finds ever! As you occasionally do.
