Jiren
Black bear
“Water can flow, or it can crash”.
Posts: 307
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Post by Jiren on Jan 30, 2023 15:06:26 GMT -5
“ The stout limbs of bears are capable of producing large forces over a much greater range of motion than those of dogs or even cats” |
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Post by arctozilla on May 18, 2023 7:02:04 GMT -5
"Grey Wolf - 127.3 at the canine tips
African Wild Dog - 131.1 at the canine tips
Spotted Hyena - 99.6 at the canine tips
Wolverine - 104.6 at the canine tips"
Wolves have stronger bite than bears ? No way. Bears have way larger zygomatic arches and bigger sagittal crest.
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Post by Gorilla king on May 18, 2023 7:10:45 GMT -5
Remember that those values are relative to the animal's weight, meaning that wolves same weight as bears would have a higher bite force.
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Post by oldindigosilverback on May 28, 2023 6:19:44 GMT -5
/\ A lot of bite force measurements are done pound to pound. For example, a male polar bear will have a stronger bite than a male tiger, lion, and a grizzly bear being much larger but pound to pound these three animals have a stronger bite force. Bite force is not everything in winning fights though  . |
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Post by Gorilla king on Jun 1, 2023 7:51:11 GMT -5
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Jiren
Black bear
“Water can flow, or it can crash”.
Posts: 307
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Post by Jiren on Jun 1, 2023 13:34:01 GMT -5
I think I saw Rorqual mention this before. He said this: “ The bear’s backbone being shorter and their denser bones are meant to sustain more bulk and thus give them stronger forearms which gives them better control in fights and wrestles. ” I saved it in my notes, I thought it was a good argument. |
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Post by arctozilla on Jun 3, 2023 11:31:25 GMT -5
Forelimb Indicators of Prey-Size Preference in the Felidae The forelimbs, along with the crania, are an essential part of the prey-killing apparatus in cats. Linear morphometrics of the forelimbs were used to determine the morphological differences between felids that specialize on large prey, small prey, or mixed prey. We also compared the scaling of felid forelimbs to those of canids to test whether prey capture strategies affect forelimb scaling. Results suggest that large prey specialists have relatively robust forelimbs when compared with smaller prey specialists. This includes relatively more robust humeri and radii, relatively lager distal ends of the humerus, and relatively larger articular areas of the humerus and radius. Large prey specialists also had relatively longer olecranon processes of the ulna and wider proximal paws. These characters are all important for subduing large prey while the cat positions itself for the killing bite. Small prey specialists have relatively longer distal limb elements for swift prey capture, and mixed prey specialists had intermediate values with relatively more robust metacarpals. Arboreal felids also had more robust limbs. They had relatively longer proximal phalanges for better grip while climbing, and a relatively short brachial index (radius to humerus ratio). Additionally, we found that felids and canids differ in forelimb scaling, which emphasizes the dual use of forelimbs for locomotion and prey capture in felids. This morphometric technique worked well to separate prey-size preference in felids, but did not work as well to separate locomotor groups, as scansorial and terrestrial felids were not clearly distinguished." www.researchgate.net/publication/23720916_Forelimb_Indicators_of_Prey-Size_Preference_in_the_Felidae ![]()
Credits to Warsaw |
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Post by Gorilla king on Jun 11, 2023 14:36:20 GMT -5
Foxe Basin Polar Bear
HB-Length (Straight Line): 237cm (males); 198cm (females)
Weight: 579kg (males); 255kg (females)
BMI: ~103.1 (males); ~65 (females)
Svalbard Polar Bear
HB-Length (Straight Line): 225cm (males); 194cm (females)
Weight: 389kg (males); 185kg (females)
BMI: ~76.8 (males); ~49.2 (females)
Yellowstone Grizzly Bear
HB-Length (Straight Line): 164cm (males); 151cm (females)
Weight: 193kg (males); 135kg (females)
BMI: ~71.8 (males); ~59.2 (females)
East African Lion
HB-Length (Straight Line): 184cm (males); 155cm (females)
Weight: 174kg (males); 121kg (females)
BMI: ~51.4 (males); ~50.4 (females)
American Lion (maximum dimensions)
HB-Length (Straight Line): 250cm
Weight: 351kg
BMI: ~56.2
Ngandong Tiger (maximum dimensions)
HB-Length (Straight Line): 233cm
Weight: 368kg
BMI: ~67.8
Credited to theundertaker45
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Post by arctozilla on Jul 6, 2023 5:35:46 GMT -5
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Post by Gorilla king on Jul 18, 2023 3:33:34 GMT -5
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Post by arctozilla on Jul 18, 2023 16:50:38 GMT -5
So that debunks the excuse of bear being fat but not muscular.
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Post by Gorilla king on Jul 19, 2023 1:38:49 GMT -5
So that debunks the excuse of bear being fat but not muscular. |
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Post by arctozilla on Jul 22, 2023 16:37:51 GMT -5
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Post by arctozilla on Jul 28, 2023 7:00:03 GMT -5
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Post by oldindigosilverback on Jul 31, 2023 9:10:38 GMT -5
Reply 52. So the Himalayan black bear has 57% fast twitch muscles. I am curious to the percentage the other bears have.
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 1, 2023 9:33:23 GMT -5
The humerus of the plantigrade animal is strongly marked with a large ridge for the insertion of a perctoral muscle which rises from the whole length of the sternum, is furnished with broad eondyles for the origin of the muscles of the hand and fingers, and has an extensive surface for articulation with the scspula. All these signs indicate free action of the arm on the trunk, with extensive motion of the hand and wrist.
The humerus of the digitigrade animal, compared with the above, is weak and short, is not so prominently marked with ridges, its condyles scarce project beyond the articulating surface or trachea, and it shews a limited surface for articulation with the scapula. These marks attest a more limited power of the arm and hand, and a less free motion of the extremity on the trunk. books.google.it/books?id=85n7w00f_VYC&pg=PA83&dq=illustrate+the+structure+required+for+a+plantigrade+and+climbing+action+
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Post by oldindigosilverback on Aug 2, 2023 7:42:27 GMT -5
/\ Yet a smilodon is said to be more robust than a brown bear despite being a digitigrade. Once again, I believe they are not being specific about the ages of the animals.
A nine (and above) year old male brown bear and polar bear would have stronger and more robust limbs than a smilodon populator bring plantigrades while the Sabre toothed cat is a digitigrade.
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Post by Gorilla king on Aug 2, 2023 9:08:33 GMT -5
/\ Yet a smilodon is said to be more robust than a brown bear despite being a digitigrade. Once again, I believe they are not being specific about the ages of the animals. A nine (and above) year old male brown bear and polar bear would have stronger and more robust limbs than a smilodon populator bring plantigrades while the Sabre toothed cat is a digitigrade.
www.researchgate.net/publication/295370034_MORPHOLOGICAL_INDICATORS_OF_FOOT_POSTURE_IN_MAMMALS_A_STATISTICAL_AND_BIOMECHANICAL_ANALYSIS
A fact is that Populator was a very robust animal. Here ie the data posted by Ursus Arctos:
Ranking of humeri robusticity (least circumference/length so the higher the ratio, the more robust):
1. Smilodon populator: 0.401
2. Kodiak bear: 0.358
3. Smilodon fatalis: 0.337
4. Smilodon gracilis: 0.330
5. Polar bear: 0.325
6. Jaguar: 0.322
7. Lion: 0.318
8. Brown bear (non-Kodiak): 0.314
9. Tiger: 0.303
10. Clouded leopard: 0.298
11. Cougar: 0.291
12. Leopard: 0.290 |
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Post by oldindigosilverback on Aug 2, 2023 15:47:26 GMT -5
Reply 57. That was just my opinion . Anyway, the Kodiak bear is more robust than other brown bear and surprisingly so is the polar bear. Male kodiak bears, Peninsula Alaskan brown bears, and polar bears are still bigger and stronger than smilodon populators overall. Being a full plantigrade means hitting harder than a semi plantigrade at least from a stand still point. |
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Post by arctozilla on Oct 8, 2023 8:09:02 GMT -5
Here's a nice interesting study. It says that tigers have 33% of white fibers.  Which pales to brown bears who have 45% of white fibers.  onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jmor.10673So a brown bear is pound for pound stronger. Bears build more strength whereas big cats more muscles - this is like powerlifter and bodybuilder. They have also more stamina which is a good combination. Also does that mean a black bear is pound for pound stronger than a brown bear given it has more fast twitch fibers? |
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